Optimized output impeadance of the Kaiju with HD800

johnsonad · 4530

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Offline johnsonad

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on: December 09, 2020, 02:23:25 PM
I absolutely love the combo of the Kaiju and the HD800.  It has me enjoying headphones for the first time in many years. 

Of the available taps for the Kaiju, which would you recommend for use solely with the HD800?  Currently I'm using the 4 Ohm tap.

Thanks,

Aaron

Aaron Johnson


Deke609

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Reply #1 on: December 09, 2020, 02:56:50 PM
Aaron - I assume you are asking for opinion from the BH experts, but I'll throw in a suggestion that you may find interesting and worthwhile: if you haven't done so, try listening both with and without a parallel resistive load that makes the OPT see it's intended secondary load. E.g., for secondaries wired for 4 ohms with 300 ohms headphones, a parallel 4 ohm resistor (I used 25W rated ones just to keep them cool). I notice fairly distinctive sonic changes between using and not using such parallel resistors with my 200 ohm LCD4s.  So much so, that I built in parallel load resistors in my rebuilt Kaiju - so that I can listen both ways. For me it's like having different sounding builds of the same amp in one chassis.

cheers, Derek



Offline znerken

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Reply #2 on: December 09, 2020, 11:27:46 PM
I absolutely love the combo of the Kaiju and the HD800.  It has me enjoying headphones for the first time in many years. 

Of the available taps for the Kaiju, which would you recommend for use solely with the HD800?  Currently I'm using the 4 Ohm tap.

Thanks,

Aaron

This is interesting. I am currently considering having PB build me an integrated Kaiju. I got a little hesitant after several members here said it would be very overkill. Have you compared it to anything else from Bottlehead?



Offline johnsonad

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Reply #3 on: December 11, 2020, 02:20:02 AM
Interesting idea Derek, thanks!

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #4 on: December 11, 2020, 04:40:46 AM
I did a little reading and found a nice article in Sound on Sound about impedances.  Below is  a link and quoted is the section specific to valve amplifiers though not specific to Bottlehead designs.  I placed a 4 Ohm resistor load across each channel and notice small changes.  if the amp is happier like this then I'll leave it in place. 

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/understanding-impedance

   "Whereas most modern solid-state amplifiers are virtually bombproof in terms of whether their outputs see proper loudspeakers (of any nominal impedance) or a short or open circuit, most valve amplifiers are far less tolerant. In fact, the majority of vintage valve amps will self-destruct if driven without the correct speaker load attached! The reasons are complex and depend to some extent on the design of the output circuit, but can be boiled down to what are called 'reflected' impedances.

Most, if not all, practical valve amplifiers employ an output transformer. The use of the transformer is principally to translate the effective load impedance between that required by the valves, and that of a practical loudspeaker — a typical valve output circuit requires a load of between 5kΩ and 10kΩ, whereas a practical loudspeaker presents a nominal impedance of between 4Ω and 15Ω. The transformer does this by 'reflecting' the loudspeaker's impedance through the transformer (as a function of the square of its turns ratio) to create a different (in this application, higher) load impedance for the valve output stage. Thus a 15Ω speaker will appear to the output valves as a 9kΩ load, say. It is important to note that it is the physical loudspeaker's impedance that defines the operating load for the output stage, and that valve amplifiers are very fussy about their load impedance. If a loudspeaker with a different speaker is connected, the output valves will see a different load and their performance and operating characteristics will change as a result.

Consequently, to make the system more flexible in accommodating different loudspeakers, many valve amplifiers have different output terminals (or some way of selecting nominal output impedances) for different loudspeaker loads. This is achieved by using different tappings on the output transformer so that an 8Ω speaker connected to the correct terminals will produce the same reflected impedance to the output stage as a 15Ω speaker connected to its appropriate terminals.

So what happens if the loudspeaker is disconnected? Well, instead of the 15Ω load being reflected into a 9kΩ load for the valves, we now have an infinite load, which will be reflected as an infinite load to the valves. For a given current, an infinite load requires an infinite voltage. Imagine a brief positive transient audio signal (a drum strike, perhaps) driving the output valves to the unloaded output transformer. When that transient stops, the magnetic field developed in the transformer collapses and generates a reverse polarity signal called the 'back EMF'. With an infinite load impedance, the back EMF will tend towards an infinite reversed voltage spike and this is applied directly to the valve anode plate. Depending on the valve in use, this huge back EMF is likely to far exceed its rated values and so may cause the valve to break down, damaging or destroying the grids or anode plate, and resulting in one very poorly amplifier.

However, this huge back EMF can only be generated if the amplifier is being driven in the first place. If there is no input signal to the amplifier, there will be no output signal, and so no back EMF. Under these rather exceptional circumstances there is unlikely to be any damage. The most sensible thing to do, however, is to always check that a suitable loudspeaker is connected to a valve amplifier (with the correct output terminals or transformer taps selected), before you connect or turn up the input."
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 06:19:30 AM by johnsonad »

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #5 on: December 11, 2020, 05:31:05 AM
The quoted section is describing typical tube amps with pentodes and global negative feedback. Bottlehead amps are mostly triode based and without feedback. That means they are "virtually bombproof" with respect to loading.

Specifically, the triode impedance is smaller than the transformer's primary impedance and damps the back EMF easily.

The article does not discuss feedback instability, which is another mechanism that can be a problem in unloaded pentode amps, primarily when the output transformer is inside the feedback loop. Sine Bottlehead amps generally have no feedback, they are immune to this problem as well.

Matching the speaker impedance to the output tap is still important because it provides the best compromise between power, speaker resonance damping, and distortion - but you are free to try different taps in case your system works better with a different compromise.

Paul Joppa


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #6 on: December 11, 2020, 06:15:37 AM
PJ, thanks for the information and clarification.

Matching the speaker impedance to the output tap is still important because it provides the best compromise between power, speaker resonance damping, and distortion - but you are free to try different taps in case your system works better with a different compromise.

I appreciate how you worded this :)   

I using resistors on alligator clips and do notice a small difference from non-loaded vs. 4 Ohm vs. 8 Ohm when corrected for volume. 

Aaron Johnson


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #7 on: December 11, 2020, 12:13:18 PM
I would think that you want to set the output impedance of the the Kaiju as high as possible. Then listen for noise. If the background is quiet enough that highest setting will probably give the best tonal balance. The HD800s can use a little help on the bottom end and the higher the output impedance of the amp the more bass bloom you should hear.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #8 on: December 11, 2020, 02:10:44 PM
Thanks DocB!

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #9 on: December 24, 2020, 06:26:02 AM
I did some comparisons today between 8 and 16 Ohms both loaded and uploaded.  I preferred the 8 Ohm winding loaded with a 10 Ohm resistor. Can't give any other reason other than I enjoyed it a little better. Thanks PB for the recommendation!

Aaron Johnson