Hello, system ideas most needed.

[Reap]

I am new here and wish sometime next year to build a nice system. I am 54 years old and have tired of mobile audio. For a few years I competed in IASCA and USAC stereo competitions. NOT SPL! I did Sound Quality. Competed pro and built my own systems. Also competed in 2 Finals. My last front stage amp was a Butler, semi tube amp. I no longer care about mobile audio and want to build a home system.

I have done a good bit of soldering and actually had some college classes in Fab as well as basic electronics. There is now way I could design an amp but I think I could build one or two from a kit. I have decided to go with Bottlehead and need good inputs of what I should build and welcome any advise you guys here have to give.

I think a 5K budget should do. So first of, I mostly listen to rock. Any kind will do except the speed rock or modern heavy metal. I prefer classic, southern, and any kind of blusey rock. Love stuff like AC/DC. The Who, ELO, old Aerosmith, and all of the southern rock you could name. I want a system that can handle this being driven pretty hard with some good bottom end too. I have that ringing ear thing so the super high details don't have to be so defined, but I still want the crisp clean detail. Something ambient with a good sound stage. Open and airy, yet can handle a hard attack.

I see Bottlehead doesn't do PP and this may be just fine. I think I want the dynamic head room of a single ended system. I am kind of leaning toward the Paramounts with the nice pre amp. Maybe pick up all in a kit. If this is what you guys think, what tubes would you use? And what sensitivity on the speakers? And used speakers? Or new? Or something I build? I've built crossover networks before so I'm not intimidated by that. I even machined some plastic once and bought the wire to make my own inductors. So I'm pretty open to anything. Just consider I'm trying to stick to a 5K budget. If I spend less that's even better.

Thanks for reading and post any questions you have. I probably didn't cover a few important points. Oh, and I am local to Bottlehead so will trek across the ferry someday to check out what they have.

[denti alligator]

I would go with the BeePre + Paramount combo and add a pair of Orcas with a sub or two. Damn, that would be sweet, and should fall within your range of $5k.

[earwaxxer]

Hey reap - welcome - lots of options these days.

You and I are about the same age and music tastes. A from scratch system for about $5K I would go a bit different than Sam for rock/roll.

I would build a system around the Pre-bee as preamp, with a big ballsy poweramp. I couldnt be happier with the Emotiva XPA-2. Digital front end? Use a laptop, with server or over USB. I love the Gungnir front end sound. You might want to invest in a good USB to SPDIF converter. USB is still going through some growing pains. M2Tech is a good bet. For speakers, I would go DIY and build my own, crossovers etc, but a PSB tower that can handle some power would be a good off the shelf approach. I have maggie mmg's. Love em, but you need a good sub. As far as a sub, again, I would go DIY and get a good powerful Crown amp from Parts express. If you dont want to build it I would get a nice big sub enclosure with driver and add the external amp. The 'plate amps' are crap, I have blown several of them. Parts express is a great place to shop.

cheers - Eric

[Reap]

That probably would sound great Eric, but I really want to go pure tube. Also have been looking at the Klipsch speakers @98dB.

[Doc B.]

Reap, please do come over and have a listen. I'll note here that Fridays have started to become the day that folks often drop by for a listen, and I usually have the system dialed in and running just for that purpose. I have a big and complex system that uses multiple Paramounts and can hit 105 dB peaks. Not within your budget (nor mine - my excuse is the business requires it), but it will let you hear the BeePre/Paramount sound at rockin' levels.  My suggestion for a rock system in your budget would be a pair of Paramounts, a Bee Pre and maybe some horn speakers. Look at older Altec, JBL and Klipsch speakers for used alternatives and look at Pi speakers if you want try try some DIY speakers. If you can stretch the budget a bit the open baffle designs on the Lowther America site sound really good.

I also think a curvilinear array of Orcas could hit really big levels. Some day I will buy a big stack of them from Clark and surprise him with a custom curved mounting frame for them. That will definitely go over budget...

[Reap]

That sounds pretty good Doc. How early does this magic show begin on Fridays? And, will it also happen on the 28th of this month?  Also, something I have considered......I may later add a custom build sub box with a SS amp. I know bass isn't as critical for the sound stage. Actually not at all really. It's been my experience that the most critical factor is that the box design be complimentary with the transfer function of what the environment the box is in.  And a house is much more forgiving than a car or truck. I actually think I'd get the best sound with a couple of down firing subs with an acoustically coupled divider that is vented would sound very nice. This could also serve at the cabinet that I set the amps/pre amp on. But, I still would like to hear something first. I might not even need to do this.

[Doc B.]

We are usually in by 10. Definitely around tomorrow, probably around the 21st. Not sure about the 28th, we traditionally take the week after Xmas off in order to recover from the weeks before Xmas.

I would say worry about the sub last. You are right that bass response is very dependent upon the environment. And rooms vary far more from one to another than cars. I do know for certain that you don't want to set DHT amps and preamps on a speaker cabinet. Put them on a well isolated stand.

[Reap]

OK. I was wondering about that but didn't feel a vented enclosure would move that much. Maybe for the tubes any movement is too much.  I live in Everett and work Fridays so getting over on a workday is not really possible. And, I plan to do this sometime latter next year so I may not try to get over very soon. In the meantime I'm going to audition a lot of speakers over here. I know the sound will be different, but I can make some comparisons. When I'm ready to come over I'll just let you know and take a day off. I'm guessing you're not in on Saturdays? Coming over should be a good day trip for the wife and I. I believe I can take to Edmonds ferry then drop in a little north of you.

[denti alligator]

You might be able to find a used pair of Klipsch Forte IIs for under $500. That's a bargain for what they can do. With high sensitivity they'd be great with the Paramounts, and would definitely get you a lot of volume.

[Doc B.]

Saturdays can be a possibility with advance notice. We've started giving classes one Saturday each month. So you might even consider taking a class and hang out after, as we usually play the system for an hour or so after classes and swill a little brew from the brewery next door. The Kingston/Edmonds ferry would work well. We are about an easy 30 minute drive from there. We are also a five minute drive from the Seattle/Bainbridge ferry, but of course you have to fight your way into downtown Seattle for that one.

DHTs are very sensitive to vibration and you will do best keeping them apart from woofer cabinets.

[Mmaxed]

I am also new here.  I have Altec Vals with a 6 watt SE amp. Not a Bottlehead, unfortunately.  In my small 11'x20' room it is more than enough.  Seems like it would be easy to get more by handing off the low bass to a sub if needed, but like others have said I would try without first.  After having several different speakers with big SS amps, I am sold on sensitive speakers and small amps.  The sound is just so effortless and dynamic.  I have other speakers that I like but they just don't have the big open sound and dynamics that the Altecs have.  while the Vals don't extend very high on the upper end, I too suffer from tinnitus, so I'm not missing anything.     

[Jim R.]

Dan,
"I also think a curvilinear array of Orcas could hit really big levels. Some day I
will buy a big stack of them from Clark and surprise him with a custom curved mounting
frame for them. That will definitely go over budget...
"

In the mean time, how about getting Clark to make some plyboo cabinets for your existing speakers? :-)

Reap, welcome to bottlehead and the forum -- you've made a good decision to start here.

-- Jim

[Doc B.]

I talked to Clark about that quite some time ago. If his business ever slows down I suppose I might be able to talk him into it. But right now he has plenty to keep him busy.

[earwaxxer]

We should start a Bottlehead Tinnitus support group! Not that the Bottlehead kit causes tinnitus, you can chock that up to a 'misdirected youth', at least for me anyway!

[Reap]

Yeah, mine was caused by a summer job when I was 16. I went to work for a place that made model airplane engines and worked in a small room breaking engines in. No mufflers and crappy ear muffs. This was in 1975 so you know they didn't care that much then.