Do I need a line conditioner?

[denti alligator]

I have two already. But they're cheap ones (Monster brand, under $150 each). I have one for my home theater system, and one with my computer upstairs. Do I need one with the Bottlehead equipment? And what one should I use?

Will one a) protect the equipment from power spikes? and/or b) make a difference in sound?

[John Roman]

I use a monster audio filter that cost about $400 a few years back. I can detect no audible difference with or without it in place. I really only use it as a way of turning everything on with one switch. IMO these "filters" or whatever they choose to call them can really be overkill unless your power source is variable. Not sure that helps, just been my experience.

[Grainger49]

Sam,

Read my post here about my API Power Wedge (balanced power and ground loop elimination) and PS Audio P300 (balanced, regenerated {no noise} power):

http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,1372.0.html

I have suggested the PS Audio regenerators to a few Bottleheads who have bought them and still use them.

I won't talk about anything that I have not heard.  But in the case of the Power Station, I have read how it is intended to work in your system.  Note that I don't say how it sounds.

There are a lot of power "changers."  Some filter, some isolate, some regulate, some regenerate and some don't do much of anything.  Some are in parallel with your system (Gray's Power Station), but most are in series with the power, between the nasty old power company and your precious audio gear.

There are all kinds of power problems.  A certain type of noise is "common mode" noise.  Balanced power (Equi=Tech, PS Audio, Power Wedge and others) can eliminate this kind of noise.  

Some problems are voltage dips or spikes.  A regenerator will carry through both dips and eliminate spikes.  I believe the better Monster power conditioners will make up for sagging voltage and filter the spikes. They control the voltage output like a constant voltage transformer.  The Power Station should help with a small notch and do nothing with a spike.   I still can't say how they sound, I haven't heard the Monster products that I remember.

The best protection for large spikes is a whole house spike/surge eliminator.  Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Eaton-Cutler-Hammer-Whole-Protector-CHSPMICRO/dp/B0039ZBW50/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328130741&sr=8-1-fkmr1

More types of noise are high frequency harmonics and tiny dips and spikes that are caused by industrial equipment.  The subject of power line problems can go on and on.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.  So try one.  Buy it where they will allow you to return it.  Borrow one from some other guy who is using it "successfully" on his system.  (shipping on these things is bad, and I know you don't have a lot local audio buddies, sorry.)

[Chris]

for maybe some good value products, it doesnt hurt to check out audioprisms quietline product....

[Grainger49]

These are good at eliminating noise spikes on the line if they are above the line voltage.  Any noise that is a dip in line voltage can not be filled by these or the PS Audio "noise harvester" that is more expensive at $100, Audioprism Quietline is $40.

[Jim R.]

Sam,

Personally, and after trying many of these devices -- from PS Audio, Running Springs Audio, and a host of others, I pretty much gave up on them as they all seemed to damage the sound in some way, and the worse ones even added some noise to the system (any conditioner that has an MOV in it will probably do this -- all the PS audio things like the Soloist, Soloist Plus, Duet, Quintt, etc did this to my system.    And despite this, I'd never trust any of these devices to completely protect your gear in a lightning strike.

In my opinion, you are far better off getting a couple of good outlets, such as the Jena Labs Cryoed Hubbel 20 amp outlets.  Again here, I've tried boutique outlets from Oyaide, Acrolink and others, but the Jena labs ones, and a couple of the Furutek ones), as well as the Porter Ports (which you can find on audiogon) are equally as good and generally a whole lot less money.

I recently had a dedicated 20 amp service installed in my listening room and I could have put any outlet in there I wanted, but went with a pair of the Jena Labs cryoed 20 amp units.

As far as real power conditioners are concerned, I have found one, and have had it for a bi less than a year now,, and this is the Pi Audio Group Rev. B Buss, and the only one that I've tried that doesn't mess with the sound at all.  It uses some sort of RFI/EMI block of stuff that is proprietary and does not touch the wiring directly -- there are no series filter elements in this conditioner at all, and it can easily pass 40 amps without blinking an eye.  It is the only conditioner I've owned that simply doesn't get in the way, but also takes a lot of crud off the line that you probably aren't even aware of. 
When I first plugged it into the system that I thought was very, very quiet and had nothing much I could complain about, well, it was like hearing a whole new system -- noise I wasn't even aware of was cleaned off the line and all that remained was clean, unrestricted juice -- as much as any reasonable amp could ever require.

No, iI don't get any kickbacks or any such thing, just a satisfied customer who dislikes power conditioners and is now trying to figure out how I can afford the Uber Buss for my other system.

While I haven't tested it myself, I think the Porter ports outlets and the bBH power cables would make a very nice pairing and perform ery close to some of the super high-end cables.  I'd probably start there and see how far it gets you -- especially with the Fortes -- they are sensitive and should show all kinds of things other kinds of speakers may not.  Then save your pennies for a Rev. B or Uber buss from Pi Audio, and you'll be set for life.

BTW, you can plug a 15 amp plug into a 20 amp outlet, just not the other way around.  And I'd personally go for the Jena labs outlets as they are 20 amps, which means more contact area and a death grip on the plug.

Hope this helped,

Jim

[HF9]

Many moons ago I had a pair of Rogue Monoblocks. Because of the dirty ground on my outlets, there was notable noise coming through the speakers. The Rogues could have the ground lifted to eliminate the problem, but I didn't like that idea and decided to seek out a surge protector or conditioner that would solve the problem. I tried various brands, Panamax, Acoustic Research, Oneac, PSAudio and a couple other big companies. Some didn't make a difference, some made the system sound more compressed. Only one got rid of the noise but didn't affect the sound negatively that I could tell, which was the PSAudio UPC200. It's likely not the ideal choice for every system, but it worked the best in that particular case, for whatever it's worth.

[Laudanum]

I know my ears arent golden, but maybe they are actually tin ...   Voltage sags here all the time, especially summer.  I wanted something with voltage regulation for the TV.  I got an APC H15 (on sale) and I replaced it with the APC S15 (when it went on sale).  So when I put together the headphone system, I used the H15 I already had.  I cant hear a lick of difference with it in the system or out.  It provides some surge protection and the voltage regulation and it was relatively inexpensive when we first got it and essentially free since it was sitting there waiting to be used.  On the plus side, I dont hear any noise or anything else when the AVR kicks in or out either.  Like I said, maybe I have tin ears and maybe thats a good thing (from a money spending perspective anyway).  Or, giving myself the benefit of the doubt, since nothing is drawing much current on the headphone system, maybe that's why I dont hear anything negative.   On the main system, all I have is a Brick Wall for surge protection.  I never heard any difference with the Brick Wall in or out of the AC path, and I tried like heck when I first got it (10 years ago). 

I wont recommend that you buy one (unless perhaps you can return if not satisifed) since concensus here and general concensus on other forums seems to be that the relatively inexpensive units like those from APC, Tripp Lite and others tend to not be "audiophile" approved.   Just sharing my own very personal (and very possibly tin eared) experience with the H15  :-)

[Doc B.]

These devices are going to have varying degrees of utility depending upon the device attached to them and what you are trying to fix with the "conditioner". For example, a basic Seduction phono preamp with no current or voltage regulation might benefit from a line conditioner that regulates the mains voltage. On the other hand an Eros phono preamp that has constant current sources and shunt voltage regulation on both the high voltage supply and heater supply is already dealing with line voltage variations by itself.

I think you have to ask just what is being "conditioned" on a case by case basis. Ground loops? Voltage sag? Overvoltage? Common mode noise on the mains? Your wallet?

[Jim R.]

I need to add that I've never tried any of the PS Audio power plants/regenerators and I know a lot of folks like them, ut most of the people I know who have them have replaced the heavy nickel plated outlets with unplated hubbells -- like the Jena labs and Porter ports.

I've also heard some very good things about the Sound Applications, Acoustic Revive and Blue Circle units, but we're talking about a whole lot of money -- too much.

I don't mean to dis PS Audio, just that I haven't found any of their products to work for me -- just a differrent house sound.

-- Jim

[Grainger49]

Jim's earlier post mentioned some component noise filters.  The MOV, Metal Oxide Varistor, will break down if the voltage gets too high.  By too high I mean if the 120V AC has a 200V spike on it.  This spike burns a hole through it.  I have seen MOVs that have been completely demolished.  

Then there are line chokes.  Those are chokes in series with the hot and neutral feeds.  Chokes present a high impedance to high frequencies.  Often these are shunted with a high voltage capacitor.  That is after the chokes a capacitor across the AC line.  It passes any remaining high frequency noise from hot to neutral and vice versa.  But the chokes also keep your supply from drawing current quickly.  This is mostly a problem with high current, high power amplifiers.

Another passive device is a ferrite.  I see them most often in a split toroid configuration.  Radio Shack and AudioQuest sold split ferrite noise blockers.  These repress very high frequency noise that might ride on the line voltage.  Properly used they are effective in eliminating hash you are not aware of.

[4krow]

I can't help myself, I just have to say that I have worked with power, both AC and DC. What Doc said is the closest to what I believe, i.e. it depends on the problem that you are dealing with from the AC source and it depends on the needs of the connected equipment as well. If I had to just pick one device for my purposes, it would be the PS Audio P300 with multi-wave. There were many different sine wave types to choose from and yes, it did make a difference on some of my equipment. A close second is what I own today, and that is the BPT balanced power unit. The common mode noise is 'x-ed' out, and in my unit, each set of receptacles  has it's own secondary winding. When opening up the unit and taking a look, I closed it right back up realizing there wasn't ONE thing I would change. Concerning voltage sags however, I might be more inclined to use a higher end Tripplite unit. Poor power is almost everywhere. Good luck on the hunt.

[Grainger49]

Sam, the original poster, didn't respond yet.  His concerns were voltage spikes and making the equipment sound better.

Something as simple as the Audioprism Quietlines that Chris mentions will take small spikes out.  Making the system sound better is probably location and system dependent.