Got to love those f*1*in tubes!

[earwaxxer]

Sorry about the censorship type of communication. Not sure how Bottlehead is. They are usually pretty cool with the curse words but I'm not sure..... Anyway. But I have to just go nuts for a bit. I have had my stereo on all day with the Quickie on. Got some heavy duty NiMetels in there. Just thought I would get the Quickie out of the circuit for awhile just for the hell of it. I have pre-amp capabilities on my Transporter. Give me a reason to get this POS tube crap out of my life.

No such luck. With everything 'warmed up' to the max. The Quickie in the 'pre-amp' position still rules. By a frickin mile.  I was thinking about trying some balanced wires to my amp from the Grungnir to see what would happen. I still might. Not too optimistic.

God damn love the Quickie! - sorry (curse words) I think.  

[Jim R.]

Eric,

Yup, tubes will do that to you -- especially single-ended, class A, DHTs with no feedback.  It's the only way to live (at least for me.)

-- Jim

[earwaxxer]

update....

Quickie has been 'demoted'. Got the Blue Jeans balanced cables today. Went balanced from my Gungnir to my Emotiva. VERY nice indeed! No contest. Sorry Quickie.

The Quickie is now relegated to subwoofer duties. Very nice in that position I might add. I needed the pre-amp boost now that I'm using the Transporter as a preamp. Going digital toslink to the MSB from the Transporter. A much attenuated signal. The Quickie picks up the slack. Nice Bass! Love this hobby!

[earwaxxer]

sorry - forgot to include the pic!

[corndog71]

Wow.  Now that's a DIY rig!

I'm surprised by your change of view on the quickie.  My ultimate quickie paired with my ultimate ST35 is the best sound I've ever had!

[earwaxxer]

Hey Rob -

I'm a bit surprised as well. Shocked actually. I can tell you generally what I like about the Gungnir sound via balanced vs the Gungnir via Quickie as preamp.

First of all, the Quickie sound has been preferred in ALL the previous comparisons I have tried due to the wonderful 3rd order harmonics, fleshing out of the sound etc. The Quickie did not appear to subtract from any of the desirable clarity from the sound. If anything, it added shape and definition to each instrument. Even using the Quickie in front of a integrated t-amp transformed the t-amp sound in marvelous ways.

Now, the Gungnir is set up to take advantage of balanced connections. I knew that from the get go when I bought it. I have not been a believer in balanced, but now I am. The Gungnir uses discrete analog stages, and is naturally balanced, but uses summing stages to convert to single ended. It has two sets of single ended outputs as well.

When I first compared the sound of the SINGLE ENDED output of the Gungnir direct to power amp, vs. the Gungnir to Quickie - the Quickie in the circuit easily bested the Gungnir due to the above. Flesh on the bones was always more engaging. Now, the balanced out on the Gungnir is a whole other league entirely. Very impressive. Fantastic highs. Nice, natural tube like decay. Great bass. Very real. Its been said before, DAC makers like Schiit, Burson, Bryston etc. are really honing their sound. These are not you grand-dads DAC's.  Together with the laid back character of the Emotiva, the Gungnir is a great combo, with or without tubes.

PS - the Quickie is adding some very nice bass drive for my Crown/sub. Win/win!

Cheers - Eric

[corndog71]

What balanced cables are you using and are they different from your single ended cables?

[earwaxxer]

I only have one pair of balanced cables, from Blue Jeans Cables. They are Belkins. I just got them, not even 'broken in'. I have several sets of boutique RCA interconnects with beaucoup hours on them. Not huge differences in sound between them. I tend to like the JPS Labs the best. The sound difference with the balanced cables is to big to chock it up to cables alone. Its more like the difference between a good and very good piece of kit. Very obvious, at all volume levels.

[Paul Birkeland]

Now, the Gungnir is set up to take advantage of balanced connections. The Gungnir uses discrete analog stages, and is naturally balanced, but uses summing stages to convert to single ended. It has two sets of single ended outputs as well.

Perhaps you can get a single ended output before the summing circuit in the DAC.  It also might be worth trying a line input transformer at the Quickie with the balanced connections.

It is probably overzealous to attribute everything to the balanced interface and differential circuitry in this one instance, as there could be something going on in the summing circuit that is less than desirable. 

[earwaxxer]

So Paul, are you saying that there is an easy/cheap way to make the Quickie handle balanced input/output? That would be interesting. I cant really hack around with the DAC, because I dont know what the hell I'm doing!

It would be interesting to build a balanced Quickie though!

[Doc B.]

What PB is saying is that when you removed the Quickie you also removed the summing circuit in the Gungir. So you can't really determine which of the two was making the sound less good than running directly from the differential (not balanced, that is about interconnect cabling) output of the Gungir. If you want a balanced Quickie, just buy a second one for the inverted half of the signal.

[earwaxxer]

Right Doc, I understand what you are saying.

What I previously found quite clear though, is that the Gungnir sounded better through the Quickie via single ended to poweramp than the Gungnir straight to poweramp via single ended. The Gungnir via RCA to poweramp was a bit flat and uninteresting. I guess a bit narrow. Not fleshed out. With the Quickie in the circuit the sound was more realistically large. Like the sound had more energy behind it (ie. active preamp).

What I'm hearing now with the balanced circuit is better definition. When the sound 'stops', it stops very quickly. Everything is defined better due to precise and quick responses. Unlike most digital and SS sound though, there is not an emphasis on the leading edge (thats what tubes do so well) - proper decay and timber.

I have been asking around on the Gungnir and Emotiva site to see what others have found in this regard. Interesting for sure.