Hookup wire questions

[FraGGleR]

I didn't want to revive any dead threads, so I will ask here.  I am considering rebuilding my S.E.X. 2.1 from the ground up with new hookup wire as part of my "upgrade" plan along with some new capacitors.  The iron upgrades are just a bit too far out of reach right now.  My questions are as follows:

1.  PVC vs Teflon:  Can anyone describe the audible differences?  I know that teflon is in theory a better dialectric, but was wondering if anyone could describe what they have heard.  I am considering some Neotech OCC wire and the PVC is obviously cheaper than the teflon and though I am spending money on new wire, I'd like to find the cheapest solution that gives me good improvements.

2.  Solid vs Stranded:  I know solid is recommended due to staying in place and the dangers/pain of stray strands, but I am more concerned about the sound (I have made probably 100 cables using stranded wire and am comfortable finishing it).  I know Doc has said he prefers solid from a sound stand point, but was wondering what differences solid vs stranded might have holding other things constant (ie both OCC copper).  Also I have heard that nicking the wire when stripping can cause it to break.  I don't have fancy wire strippers so stranded gives me a bit of insurance by only losing a strand or two as opposed to having the core snap over time.

3.  OCC vs Cardas:  I have never used Cardas hookup wire before, but it is easily available in multiple gauges at very reasonable prices, and has generally positive reviews on the web.  I use only stranded OCC copper in my cables because I was able to get it near cost from a friend, but it is only 24awg and getting it in thicker gauges is much more expensive.  Solid OCC in PVC (and teflon) is close enough in cost to Cardas that I would consider it if it sounded better. 

4.  Gauge:  I believe the larger wire is 20ga and the shielded pair is 24ga that is included in the kit.  Are these the ideal conductor sizes or is their some fudge in there?  I am more concerned with the 20ga, as 22ga OCC is cheaper, but I don't want to limit anything by dropping down in gauge.  I can find Cardas in either 19.5 or 20.5, so there is less a concern there (assuming dropping half a gauge is still kosher).

I don't know if I actually hear differences in wire, but I am OK to pay a little extra to get "mental insurance" by using something that is well-regarded enough that I don't worry about losing anything.

[earwaxxer]

I sleep well at night using teflon coated solid core pure silver. Its sexy, especially with the clear teflon coating. I use 22 AWG.

http://www.homegrownaudio.com/solid-core-silver-wire/

[corndog71]

You may or may not find dramatic differences in the "sound" of certain wires.  However, durability and quality of materials may be a deciding factor.

For instance one could get the solid or stranded 22awg wire from Radio Shack for $6 per roll and be done with it.  It will likely not sound much different than if you used your OCC wire.  But I can almost guarantee working with the RS wire will be more of a pain due to the ease with which the PVC insulation melts and pulls away from the stripped end.  You may also find the soft, fragile copper RS uses to be maddening as it breaks off a connection by the mere bumping of it while trying to do something else.

I haven't worked with the OCC wire but I'm very familiar with Homegrownaudio wire and it's similar to the stuff Doc uses in the kits.  You want a moderately stiff wire with a clean stripping insulation. (teflon is very easy to work with and won't melt easily.)  Solid core eases installation over stranded depending on the stiffness of the wire.  I used to use Kimber TC wire for internal wire but the very stiff strands can be a pain to manipulate. 

My point is ease of use should be a contributing factor as well as quality of materials.  Wire guage isn't much of a concern.  You can go bigger if you like but it's not necessary.  Now the insulation may be more of a limiting factor with higher voltages but then again the Sex amp doesn't have super high voltages so maybe not.

[FraGGleR]

Thanks guys.  Silver would be an interesting experiment, but would be cost prohibitive for me. 

So neither of you have found it a problem to use 22ga for all wiring despite getting 20ga and 24ga in the kit?  I think that might be my main concern at this point since I am pretty dextrous with both manipulating wire and soldering (famous last words probably).  Just wondering about power lines, etc.  How small would be too small?

To be honest, I have made tons of ICs and headphone cables and have had a hard time distinguishing them, so I am not expecting huge changes in sound.  I just wondered that since these wires were integral to actually generating the sound that the wire selection might be more important.

[Paul Birkeland]

20, 22, or 24 AWG will work well in the kit.  Stranded wire is a horrendous idea, it doesn't stay where you put it, and the strands of wire get pretty nasty to deal with around tube socket pins and tight components. 

IMO, silver wire is not a particularly good choice, I'd take OCCC or our Teflon solid core wire any day.

[FraGGleR]

Thanks for the feedback, CB.  I will stick with solid core OCC in teflon since I can use 24ga through out.  I shouldn't hear a difference between the gauges, correct?  24ga won't be a bottle neck for current or anything like that?

I apologize for my paranoia.  I do a lot of reading over at Headfi and other "audiophile" websites, where the lines between marketing/audiophile "bigger and more expensive is better", are mixed in with a smaller, but louder "it doesn't matter if it is designed well" crowds.  OCC silver vs coat hangers, if you will.  It is hard for someone like me to find the right spot to slot in since I can't afford to experiment as much as the next guy.  I understand that thicker gauge has lower impedance and can carry more current, and I just wanted to make sure that in this particular tube circuit, I won't be restricting anything by going smaller.  I have only worked with simple solid state circuits before where I only had to worry about signal lines and not power.

BTW, I don't know if your post count is real or now, but at the time of your response to me, you were 1337  

[earwaxxer]

Those HeadFi folks can be a bit 'opinionated' but I like to post over there as well. Dont even think about bringing up 'wire' over there though!

The bottom line is, dont get hung up about the point to point wires you use. Think about it, a printed circuit uses incredibly thin runs of conducting material and we dont get hung up about that. Its probably not even pure copper. The DIY world gets us thinking about a lot of things that we previously took for granted. Thinking is good, but sometimes we need some 'redirection' to focus on the where the real problems are. Bigger fish to fry!

[FraGGleR]

So if I have a choice, would foil, braid, or both be more ideal for the shielded twisted pair?  I have the materials to make my own of any kind, but the foil is a pain in the buttocks.  But, if I am going all out by making my own cable, I might as well do it right.

[earwaxxer]

For what its worth, I have inductors made of foil and those with solid core copper. IMO the solid core sounds better. Both are very heavy gauge, the foil is 12AUG and the solid core is 10AUG. It seems to me that in an inductor is where you would hear the differences. After all, there is miles of the stuff in each.

[Doc B.]

I think he's talking about the shield, Eric. The bottom line on shielding is how well it, well, shields, which is usually referenced to how well the shield covers the twisted pair, e.g, 94%, 98% coverage, etc.

[earwaxxer]

Oh, ok sorry. Topic for another discussion.

[FraGGleR]

Yes, shielding   Although being a cable nut, making something out of silver foil had crossed my mind.

I had been reading a bit on shielding, and while foil, when done right, is a 100% coverage, braid had a lower impedance to ground, enabling it to attenuate noise better, even at lower % coverage (according to white paper by Alpha wire). 

I was just wondering if anyone had any opinions directly on shielding within a Bottlehead amp chassis.  I know I have a tendency to overthink things prior to doing them.