Soft start voltage descepancy

johnsonad · 6864

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Offline johnsonad

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Reply #15 on: December 01, 2013, 11:37:07 AM
Hmmm, I just figured it out. There is an error in both of my manuals.

Paramount version 2-26-06
And
Paramount soft start version 2-11-11


The soft start manual was just shipped to me so there is still an error in it. Thank you for the sanity check PB. Now to figure out why the voltage will not come up on this soft start board.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 07:34:23 AM by Caucasian Blackplate »

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #16 on: December 02, 2013, 03:06:46 AM

You can test the C4S by removing the A side Kreg feed to the 5670.  Since we want 4V of bias with 4.3mA of current, you can use a 1K resistor from the driver stage cathode to ground, then retest to see if your driver plate voltage comes up.  If it doesn't, you have an issue with your B-side C4S wiring/soldering.  If it does, then you need to reheat your joints in the TL431 biasing network, and be triple sure that you have all the jumpers that you need.

I did this test removing A side K reg and placing a 1k resistor for B2 to ground. The voltage jumped up from 116v to around 156v. Continuing with you instructions I removed and tested each of the jumpers to see if there was a break in the wire. I then reheated all components on A side while rewetting them with solder.  After putting it all back together I still have low voltage at the OB side of the resistor.

What's next? Could there be a component on the C4S that has failed?

Thank you for your help.

Aaron
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 03:49:43 AM by johnsonad »

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #17 on: December 02, 2013, 03:38:19 AM
How much voltage do you get across the 1K resistor?

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #18 on: December 02, 2013, 03:48:11 AM
3.41v across the 1K resistor.

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #19 on: December 02, 2013, 06:32:28 AM
Hmm, it should be 4.3V (since the C4S is set for 4.3mA), or very, very close to that.

Are you sure you don't have a 237 Ohm R1 in there by mistake instead of a 215 Ohm?

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #20 on: December 02, 2013, 03:10:03 PM
I pulled the R1 resistor to verify and it measured out to 216.1 Ohms. What's next?

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #21 on: December 02, 2013, 04:32:11 PM
The C4S is working correctly. (details below.)

The 431 on the A side is NOT working correctly. If you are getting 2.1v at kreg(A) then the 431 is saturated, which cannot happen if it is working and connected correctly. Normally it would be around 4.0 volts, but this value depends on the particular tube and is not precise. The experiment with the 1K resistor confirms that the tube works, it is just not getting the right bias from the (A side) 431.

Rather than speculate on what might be wrong, or get into too many detailed measurements at the 431 pines and associated resistors, I'd suggest that a new 431 be installed. Make sure the right pins go to the right holes, and that the board is clean so there's no chance of leakage currents through fingerprints or flux residue (a long shot but easy to eliminate!).

Current numbers:

The R1 value of 215 ohms gives 4.0mA, not 4.3mA as I wrote on the schematic. I apologize to everyone for failing to make those consistent. The original intent was to get 4.3mA which would have been a 200 ohm resistor, but I do not think the difference is of any significance.

The 300K resistor which parallels the tube (off the board) takes 0.6mA , leaving 3.4mA for the tube, which is what was measured. So the (B side) C4S feeding the driver plate is operating correctly.

Paul Joppa


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #22 on: December 02, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
Thank you both again for your help. I'll get a 431 ordered and post once they are swapped.

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #23 on: December 02, 2013, 05:42:17 PM


The 300K resistor which parallels the tube (off the board) takes 0.6mA , leaving 3.4mA for the tube, which is what was measured. So the (B side) C4S feeding the driver plate is operating correctly.

Ah, snap, I was totally scratching my head about what was going on, and I forgot about that 300K resistor!

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #24 on: December 02, 2013, 07:00:58 PM


The 300K resistor which parallels the tube (off the board) takes 0.6mA , leaving 3.4mA for the tube, which is what was measured. So the (B side) C4S feeding the driver plate is operating correctly.

Ah, snap, I was totally scratching my head about what was going on, and I forgot about that 300K resistor!
Yeah, I spent the better part of an hour rummaging in my design and test notes and re-calculating the parts values and currents before it dawned on me. I even wrote a whole post on the non-existent problem, fortunately didn't press the send button.

Paul Joppa


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #25 on: December 03, 2013, 03:40:49 AM
We are so fortunate to have you two! Thank you for taking so much of your time to solve just one of your many customer questions! 

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #26 on: December 08, 2013, 04:15:15 AM
I'm happy to report that the amp is up and running to specs with the new LM 431. I'll make a new post soon with more details. For now I'm listening to a surprisingly good sound with zero burn in :) thank you again PB and PJ!

Aaron Johnson