glue for bottlehead base

aragorn723 · 3757

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Adrian

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 276
Reply #15 on: June 04, 2015, 03:53:26 PM
My take on this is different - but I've only been assembling these bases since 1995. I glue the raw wood up carefully, keeping the glue away from the outside corner so it doesn't ooze out. Sand the base with 220 grit on a palm sander. That allows me get all the corners leveled out and ever so slightly break the sharp edges. Then I stain the assembled base with water base aniline dye, or more often leave it blond. Seems to me if the glue does happen to ooze over the stained wood you could have a mess to fix up.

I agree with this approach.  A little glue (read "not much" here) is all you really need in the joints.  Face it, the joints are a flush fit - you don't need much and I too try to keep it away from the visible areas.  Very important to immediately wipe off excess glue.  I have found that any residual dried glue is sandable and have never had a problem removing it prior to stain, varnish, or paint.  As mentioned above, I default to Elmer's White - works every time.   

Adrian C.

VPI Prime w/Ortofon Quintet Black MC/Rothwell MCL Lundahl SUT/EROS/Submissive (3 output mod)/Mainline/Crack - Speedball/S.E.X. 2.1 - C4S/S.E.X. 3.0 - C4S/Paramounts - Blumenstein 2.2 Mini-Max w/DOF mod -Senn HD600/Viso HP50/Focal Elear.


Offline aragorn723

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1015
Reply #16 on: June 06, 2015, 01:18:01 AM
Bill,

I noticed your base has the inside lined with copper sheets.  Is that for shielding?  Have you noticed a difference in sound from that?  Thanks,

Dave



Offline JamieMcC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1167
Reply #17 on: June 06, 2015, 11:35:18 AM
The Gorilla multipurpose glue (orange bottle) is a trade branding of what is essentially know as polyurethane glue. In the marine trade I work in its been around for ages. With most modern glues if used correctly its not the glue joint that fails but the surrounding wood fibres.  Its main advantage (as I see it) is that as a glue is it adheres to almost anything, requires minimal clamping force to achieve a acceptable strength joint and it is easy to clean off with a sharp chisel, exacto knife or sandpaper. The most common mistake is over application you only need the thinnest of smears on each joints surface other wise you can end up with a mess, use gloves or you will end up with black fingers oh and if you mix it with water you can make expanding foam  :o its worked well on all of my enclosures so far.

The tape up method is just so simple and works really well what can help is to use a long straight edge to keep all four pieces of the enclosure aligned along one edge for applying the tape when taped flip over add glue and fold the joints together tape the two ends firmly and place the alloy top plate in to check all is square.
 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 09:06:54 PM by JamieMcC »

Shoot for the moon if you miss you will still be amongst the stars!


Offline Bill Epstein

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 104
Reply #18 on: June 06, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Bill,

I noticed your base has the inside lined with copper sheets.  Is that for shielding?  Have you noticed a difference in sound from that?  Thanks,

Dave

You know the old Grandmother joke?

The copper foil is Chicken Soup. It couldn't hurt.

VPI Traveler/ZYX R50
Cinemag 3440 AH
Steve Brown Caravaggio Phono
Foreplay 2.1
The Twins: 55 Watt Mullard 5-20 KT-88 mono-Blocks
4 Pi Speakers


Offline Yoder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 253
Reply #19 on: June 15, 2015, 02:22:08 PM
I use the same steps that Dan does. You if do have an accident, then it is easier to correct the mistake with raw wood than already stained wood. My final step is to hand polish the finish with three to four grades of polishing compound.

If you really want to be hardcore in gluing your wood, you could use some Liquid Nails. LN is some hardcore stuff. Instead of using $40 of metal braces for some garden boxes i just built, I used Liquid Nails and four screws on each end. LN is so strong that when I helped, emphasis on helped, remodel a room down stairs last year I had to pull some 2x4's that had been secured to the concrete with liquid nails. I ended up pulling up chunks of concrete with the wood.

As Bill says, there are the all-in-ones which will save time. But, when I have worked with such it has always been a disaster. Don't even talk of putting on more than one coat (at least in my experience)...the stain jacks up everything.

@Bill. Why do you suggest "Polyurethane is for Solid State, Shellac, Watco Oil and Varnish are for tubes" or am I missing a joke here?




Offline Bill Epstein

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 104
Reply #20 on: June 15, 2015, 04:55:02 PM
I use the same steps that Dan does. You if do have an accident, then it is easier to correct the mistake with raw wood than already stained wood. My final step is to hand polish the finish with three to four grades of polishing compound.

If you really want to be hardcore in gluing your wood, you could use some Liquid Nails. LN is some hardcore stuff. Instead of using $40 of metal braces for some garden boxes i just built, I used Liquid Nails and four screws on each end. LN is so strong that when I helped, emphasis on helped, remodel a room down stairs last year I had to pull some 2x4's that had been secured to the concrete with liquid nails. I ended up pulling up chunks of concrete with the wood.

As Bill says, there are the all-in-ones which will save time. But, when I have worked with such it has always been a disaster. Don't even talk of putting on more than one coat (at least in my experience)...the stain jacks up everything.

@Bill. Why do you suggest "Polyurethane is for Solid State, Shellac, Watco Oil and Varnish are for tubes" or am I missing a joke here?

Liquid Nails

Horses for courses. Construction adhesive for un-visible (!) butt joints, superb! I used it, PL400, to glue up the innards of these Fostex designed BLHs to avoid clamping. I simple traced the bits onto one side, spred the glue in the lines, set the bits and then weighted the remaining side on top. It sticks like mad almost at once and remains somewhat flexible as it never fully dries so offers some cabinet damping. There's a thickness to it though and it doesn't penetrate the wood to make it's bond. A No Go for miter joints.

All-in-Ones , Finish
The problem with all oil based stains is they come out looking blotchy on ring-porous woods like Oak, Maple, Alder etc. One shelf over from them at Lowe's are Pre-Stain Conditioners that are mandatory. Use them with Minwax One Step, for example, and you'll get a workmanlike result. Like the Doctor says, water or alcohol soluble dyes are the better way to go but require some learning and practice. Homestead Finishing Products are best and the website has all the advice you need.

Polyurethane
 "goopethanes" positive attributes: durability and chemical resistance are far outweighed by it's oh-so-plastic look and the fact that nothing short of a belt sander will strip it for refinishing and forget aboutn repairs. Minwax, again, makes one called Wipe On Poly that in a Fine Woodworking test looked as good as a Varnish. I've used it with good results. We're tube guys because either we can build with tubes and/or prefer their richer, more musical presentation. Solid State, like Urethane, comes off a shelf and sounds/looks like it.

Get a can of Zinnser Bulls Eye Amber Shellac, denatured alcohol, cheesecloth, a couple of Mason Jars and a chunk of cotton gym sox. Pour an once of Shellac into a jar and then an ounce of alcohol. You have a 1 1/2 lb. "cut", perfect for wiping on wood sanded to 220 with Garnet paper.

Take a golf ball sized wad of cotton dip it in the shellac, press out the excess and wrap it in the cheesecloth. Wipe the pad you've made on the wood just in from the edge like you're landing it on a runway and wipe all the way to the end. The pad should drag just a bit if you pressed out enough excess. Come back the other way, slightly overlapping the first "landing" and once again starting in from the edge wiping to the end. Go back over as needed so that all those narrow strips you missed as you began a wipe get coverage, working from just inside the already wet edge to the end. Work quickly, but carefully, shellac dries fast and tends to leave ridges. Wipe on 3 coats an hour apart.

After an hour or two, using 220 Grit Stearated (grey) sandpaper folded over the flat face of a piece of wood, LIGHTLY sand the workpiece to level the finish. Wipe with a dry micro fiber cloth and apply another 3 coats. Sand and wipe. Next day dip 4-0 steel wool or synthetic in mineral spirits,.squeeze out the excess and dip into a can of Johnsons Paste Wax (yes there are fancier alternatives but it's cheap, looks great and smells wonderful) apply it to the wood in much the same wiping motion that you used to apply the shellac, except rub a bit.. Afer a few minutes buff it with the micr-fiber. You'll love the result. The second Mason Jar, BTW, is for storing the wet shellac pad between coats and even jobs; I've taken them out after weeks and went right to work.

Everyone needs at least 3 hobbies!



http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/phpBB2/index.php

VPI Traveler/ZYX R50
Cinemag 3440 AH
Steve Brown Caravaggio Phono
Foreplay 2.1
The Twins: 55 Watt Mullard 5-20 KT-88 mono-Blocks
4 Pi Speakers