Chargers or rectified supplies for Quickie?

Len · 21129

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Offline Len

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on: November 08, 2009, 02:11:21 PM
Just wondering if anyone has come across or designed a charging circuit for the Quickie batteries. Also if anyone has tried the
Quickie with a rectified AC supply (I think CB once had plans to try it).

It would be nice if we could leave the batteries in while recharging.

When I was a kid, I remember being told that only conventional batteries could be charged, and "long life" batteries couldn't. I realize that these days we do recharge alkaline batteries. Is there a story there?

Paramours
Paraglows
Excites
Heavily modded Soul Sister and Groove Thang
Quickie modded to active low pass filter
Quickie modded to headphone amp
Lots of Bottlehead parts used for building other stuff


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #1 on: November 08, 2009, 02:46:32 PM
Len,

There is a post in this area, Quickie, that has a circuit attached for a charger using three pin regulators.  Sorry I don't remember who thought of/designed it.

A search here should find it.



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #2 on: November 08, 2009, 03:34:12 PM
It's a bad idea to charge non-rechargable batteries, and some kinds need special chargers - that includes the so-called "rechargeable alkalines" which still can't be recharged more than a few times. Use NiCd or NiMH - the 1.2 volt rating is fine for the Quickie, since these batteries don't lose much voltage as the run down. Alkalines will drop from 1.5 volts down to about 1.0 volts before the circuit stops functioning. The 7.2 volt "9-v format" batteries are also fine.

We could probably do a kit but I think it would have to cost nearly as much as the Quickie itself.

Paul Joppa


Offline Len

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Reply #3 on: November 08, 2009, 04:00:22 PM
Len,

There is a post in this area, Quickie, that has a circuit attached for a charger using three pin regulators.  Sorry I don't remember who thought of/designed it.

A search here should find it.

Hey Grainger. I posted it (and built it), but it is an incorporation of the charger on VT52.com, under projects, SLA battery charger. I only posted it to show how I'm turning it on and off, not to suggest it be used for the Quickie. The batteries in the Quickie store much less energy at standard voltages, and I assume there are off the shelf chargers that can be adapted for charging them.

I was looking for a scheme of hooking up cheap battery chargers without removing the batteries. The unused position of the power switch is seductive for that purpose.

Sorry if people assumed I was taking credit for someone else's design.

Paramours
Paraglows
Excites
Heavily modded Soul Sister and Groove Thang
Quickie modded to active low pass filter
Quickie modded to headphone amp
Lots of Bottlehead parts used for building other stuff


Offline Len

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Reply #4 on: November 08, 2009, 04:17:56 PM
It's a bad idea to charge non-rechargable batteries, and some kinds need special chargers - that includes the so-called "rechargeable alkalines" which still can't be recharged more than a few times. Use NiCd or NiMH - the 1.2 volt rating is fine for the Quickie, since these batteries don't lose much voltage as the run down. Alkalines will drop from 1.5 volts down to about 1.0 volts before the circuit stops functioning. The 7.2 volt "9-v format" batteries are also fine.


Thanks. I was just going to find a charger for them. Just goes to show how clueless I am about general electronics.

I notice there are 36V lithium batteries and chargers. Unfortunately, the chargers cost about $75.00.

Alkalines can be had inexpensively when on sale, so I have enough to carry me for a while. But I know that throwing away batteries is becoming an environmental issue (e-waste), so lots of us doing it on a regular basis would bother me. And since I got the low pass Quickie going, I've been listening to my system for hours on end. Today I listened to full Japanese pressings of Symphony Fantastique and Mahler's Titan. I'm gonna be burning through batteries soon, and I haven't even finished the headphone Quickie yet.

This isn't a rant. I remember that on the old site, there were some posts about inexpensive chargers. I figured that someone may have come up with some slick charging plan and might want to post it here.

Thanks for the heads up on the recharging of alkalines.

Paramours
Paraglows
Excites
Heavily modded Soul Sister and Groove Thang
Quickie modded to active low pass filter
Quickie modded to headphone amp
Lots of Bottlehead parts used for building other stuff


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #5 on: November 08, 2009, 07:04:27 PM
I googled around a bit, and these people came up at the top of the list:

http://www.greenbatteries.com/

They seem to have some good FAQs about batteries and chargers. No association, and I haven't studied the subject, but it looks like a place to start.

Paul Joppa


Offline Len

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Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 01:32:45 AM
I googled around a bit, and these people came up at the top of the list:

http://www.greenbatteries.com/

They seem to have some good FAQs about batteries and chargers. No association, and I haven't studied the subject, but it looks like a place to start.

Thanks!

Paramours
Paraglows
Excites
Heavily modded Soul Sister and Groove Thang
Quickie modded to active low pass filter
Quickie modded to headphone amp
Lots of Bottlehead parts used for building other stuff


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 02:13:56 AM
Len,

No, I didn't think you took credit for anyone else's work.  I had thought it was an original design.  But back to chargers...

I have an Ack! dAck! that runs off of two 12V SLA batteries.  The power switch is more complicated than a DPDT switch that you often see on electronics, there are many poles.  What it does is remove the outboard charger when the DAC runs.  When off it parallels the two batteries (they are more or less in series when running) and is a float charger.  It isn't a large thing.  It looks like a wall wart.  A big wall wart!

A pair of similar devices could charge the Quickie's batteries if you could parallel the 9V batteries for charging.  I'm sure the D cells would be find in series.

Just a thought.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 07:11:51 AM by Grainger49 »



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #8 on: November 17, 2009, 12:52:16 PM
I did some more surfing ... uhhh, research, yeah that's the thing, research ... on rechargeable batteries, mostly looking at D cells.

First item - most NiMH D-cells are actually AA cells in a fat empty jacket. A real NiMH D cell will have 9000 or 10000 mAh capacity, and will probably cost $10-$15 each.

Second item - you can't buy a good charger for a real NiMH D cell, even when you can find the battery itself. All the good chargers use the "negative delta V" method to detect when the battery is charged - the voltage actually drops slightly at full charge. This effect disappears at slow charging, and works best at the 1-hour charge rate. That would be 9 or 10 amps for a real NiMH D cell, and few chargers provide more than one amp.

Since the smart chargers are not smart with real D cells, you wind up charging at some form of slow charge or even trickle charge rate, which means you have to monitor the time on charge, be sure the cell is actually depleted before charging, and you'll still get less than optimal life from the cell. The alternative is to get the cheap fake D cells, which will give maybe 24 hours per charge in a Quickie.

Third item, most of the available 9-v chargers are not smart chargers even if they are "smart" when charging AA and AAA cells.

Now you would think that a trickle charger would work for both, if it charged the batteries whenever the Quickie was off. So, what's a "trickle charge" rate that would be safe for the battery if left on indefinitely? Turns out there's not much agreement on that. The traditional rate is C/10 (one tenth of the 1-hour capacity) but NiMh cells are less tolerant. One source recommends not exceeding C/20, but only if you limit that to 20 hours maximum. Duracell recommends C/300 "to compensate for self-discharge" and it's not clear whether that would actually charge a cell or just maintain its existing charge. The C/300 rate would at best permit 4-5 hours a day of operation, since battery life is not quite 100 hours with NiMH batteries.

Paul Joppa


Offline Len

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Reply #9 on: November 17, 2009, 01:00:18 PM
I did some more ... research ... on rechargeable batteries...


Yikes! Are NiCD still a worthwhile option?

Paramours
Paraglows
Excites
Heavily modded Soul Sister and Groove Thang
Quickie modded to active low pass filter
Quickie modded to headphone amp
Lots of Bottlehead parts used for building other stuff


Offline IceOgre

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Reply #10 on: April 07, 2010, 04:51:17 AM
Could you use 7.2v rc car batteries in place of the 9v?  I have several of these batteries and a smart charger for my kids cars.  At least that would somewhat reduce the onging replacement cost.  Then stick with off the shelf D batteries.  

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXHL6&P=0
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 07:08:16 AM by IceOgre »



Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #11 on: April 18, 2010, 01:57:57 PM
Sure, you could use 5 of those.  They would need very infrequent charging.


For an AC supplied Quickie, see the following post:

http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,633.0.html

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #12 on: July 13, 2010, 10:19:28 AM
I did some more surfing ... uhhh, research, yeah that's the thing, research ... on rechargeable batteries, mostly looking at D cells.

First item - most NiMH D-cells are actually AA cells in a fat empty jacket. A real NiMH D cell will have 9000 or 10000 mAh capacity, and will probably cost $10-$15 each.  .  .  .   



Just to add to this.  I was just at Harbor Freight and they have 2500mAH NiMH D cells.  These may be the repackaged AA cells.

I don't remember the price.  They are probably on line.  As PJ points out the NiMH D cell chargers are few and far between.