More Tube Rolling for Moreplay

[Rabco]

Looked like it had been a while current to Nov2023 for many postings regarding this topic. Apologies to all concerned if this is not the appropriate way to perhaps raise and discuss this issue again.

WARNING: this is just real world tube rolling in my system using the components listed in my signature. True volume matching was not done, and one tube set’s output is less than the others. This rolling was done in my living room, not a dedicated listening room. No sound treatment for the complicated asymmetric room. I could not cross compare with headphones. I am intimately familiar with the sound of my gear. All tubes were brought up to temperature in the preamp prior to evaluation. I primarily listen to rock, folk, pop, soul, and the jazzier side of rap. Sorry, some though little classical.

Props to my wife for positive opinions in real time during my process.

I use formed plastic automobile detailing tools to gently tease the tubes out of the first part of their travel from their sockets, then gently grasping and rocking by hand their bases, not the glass of the valve.
Tubes I compared: OS matched Raytheon JAN 6V6GTY; NOS matched Soviet PANNO (N’s in cyrillic) 6n6c from the 1970’s; OS matched RCA 6K6GT. My understanding from the vendors were the OS tubes could easily be more than 60 years old. All tubes were tested as new or near new on testers.

I would have liked to find some “bottleheads” to include, but could not.

I began with the Raytheon’s as they have been in the rig for months and their sound is what is most familiar to me. Overall they have a transparent, flat frequency response type character. A clear, pleasant sound that I would characterize as somewhat antique in character. Their output gain seemed in between the Soviet tubes (highest volume gain) and the RCA’s (least volume gain). They remind me of the output of my Crack w Speedball headphone amp with my Sennheisers. Definitely a good thing. Bass was tight, upper bass not in abundance. Easy to listen to at length.

Next up I auditioned the NOS Soviet 6n6c. They sounded more dynamic and not surprisingly also exhibited the most volume gain of the 3 sets of tubes. A slight emphasis in the 4-5 kHz area noticed on voices and piano. Not overly harsh or metallic but there. Their presentation was slightly energetic, yet nicely detailed and refined on snares and cymbals. Nicely defined bass.

Lastly, I auditioned the RCA 6K6GT. My understanding is that the 6K6’s output measures less than the 6V6 equivalents previously mentioned. It took a noticeably larger use of the volume control on the Moreplay to approximate volumes equal with the previous tubes of this review. Certainly in a very usable range without overdriving or distortion. The soundstage felt slightly back in the mix from either of the previous tubes. This was not unpleasant, and sacrificed little if anything in terms of definition. In fact in the end I decided to go forward with this set of tubes for a longer additional auditioning. Initially they seemed to have potential for being the least fatiguing, yet having a nicely smooth detailed balanced tube sound.

I will update this posting as I live with these tubes for awhile.

There you have my initial foray. Not scientific but hopefully somewhat similar to what many of you may do.

[hmbscott]

Hi Rabco,

I appreciate your review, very interesting that you're observing different things than I did. My hearing is rolled off above 8kHz, and I have high pitched moderate-volume tinnitus in both ears, so my frequency discernment isn't great.

I did my tube rolling using my phono chain through my speakers (in my signature line below), and made no attempt to level match between tubes. I didn't notice significant volume differences between tubes. I listened to the full A side of Daughter's Stereo Mind Game with each of 3 tube pairs, and then switched back to the original pair and worked through the tube pairs a second time. The album, Stereo Mind Game is dream-pop/indie-folk featuring primarily female and some male vocals and a large lush and atmospheric sound stage.

The tubes rolled are in order, the stock NOS Russian 6N6C tubes, matched pairs of NOS RCA JAN CRC 6V6Y's (metal), and NOS Sylvania JAN 6V6GTY brown base tubes.

My Moreplay is pretty heavily modded. Volume, balance and selector are Goldpoint. Signal path resistors are Vishay naked z-foil, except for the Goldpoints, which contain precision thin-film nichrome resistors, surface mounts in the vol pot, IRC RC55's in the bal pot and for a 6dB Lpad on the vol pot. The plate load resistor is a Mills 5W. The audio path caps are Audyn Cap Plus and cathode bypass caps are Nichicon KZ MUSE. The power supply electrolytic caps are bypassed with Audyn Cap Q4 2.2uF's. Pin 1 of the tube socket is grounded for compatibility with metal bodied tubes.

The stock tube sounds excellent but I did hear improvement rolling to the RCA JAN CRC 6V6Y's and further improvement yet with the Sylvania JAN 6V6GTY brown base. The primary improvement I noted is an increase in sound stage size and lushness accompanied by increased clarity. The difference between the Sylvania's over the other two was very obvious.

The Sylvania's are my favorite for their lush expansive sound stage. I really liked the metal tubes as well, which had a crisp character. I've settled on the Sylvania JAN 6V6GTY brown base as my daily driver.

[Rabco]

Hey HMBScott,
Thanks for posting up.

I’d be curious to hear if you did your mods to your Moreplay in a way that would allow you to comment on the differences you heard with each mod, or, if the mods were done all at once, would you care to comment on changes in sound you observed. Or some variation on the above.

My Moreplay is bone stock, and I’ve never heard another modified or otherwise.

Of course aural memory is suspect, but hey, I don’t live in an anechoic chamber, and my main rig is located where I may do other activities that allow me to listen, or, serious critical listening alone. Most of my TV listening sound is done by a separate Yamaha AV Receiver. If I feel the tv source is of exceptional quality, I feed it through the Ares II and Moreplay.

So far the experiment with the RCA 6K6GT has been good….with the exception that the tube I had in my 2.1 setup’s right channel popped twice and quit after about an hour of use. No apparent damage was done to the Moreplay, and as these tubes were bought as a matched quad, I drove on with a matched replacement. I’m still enjoying their sound after many hours.

All tubes were allowed a complete warm up and total cool down before reuse.

I’ve tube rolled any tube audio equipment I’ve owned, and this was my first outright failure with OS or NOS valves. I actually think I must be living right with that particular track record. The popping of the failing tube is certainly disquieting……but part of the deal. We can only believe what the dealer tells us. I’m amazed at the longevity that these tubes can have.

[hmbscott]

Hi Rabco,

I happen to also have a bone-stock Moreplay, almost, it has the grounded Pin 1 and the 6 dB Lpad mod. I built the stock unit immediately before my modded one. The modded Moreplay was built from scratch with all the mods (except for the Lpad mod, which I added later to both), so I don't have the incremental comparison to report.

The modded Moreplay included a few other items, like the wire, which is 20 AWG teflon insulated and Neutrik NF2D RCA's that needed more room, so the chassis is also custom (larger, 10x10), which is part of the reason I didn't go for the incremental build. Since I replaced virtually all of the audio path components, and the chassis, I used them to build the stock Moreplay, which basically needed only the power supply components to complete. The Queen was kind enough to sell me a transformer and the shielded wire for the second build. So basically I was able to build two Moreplays for the cost of three; the mod components were expensive! .

When I first finished both I did a switched A/B test and was surprised (shocked actually!) that I couldn't tell any difference between them. This is doubly surprising because I was using different tube pairs in each, the stock Russian tubes in the stock Moreplay and the metal tubes in the modded unit, which as I have already reported, I could distinguish with my tube rolling test.

I mean the two Morplays sounded pretty much identical?!? So I thought I should go back and do the comparison like I had done with the tube rolling, but that takes a lot of time, and I haven't gotten back to it. I guess the main takeaway is that you probably aren't missing all that much by keeping your Moreplay stock.

[Rabco]

HMBScott,
There’s some serious build-your-own ethic happening on your end! I applaud and admire your forthright answers regarding improvements realized or not to your hot rodded Moreplay. The temptation to hear a large difference especially with the extent of your mods must have been pretty significant.

I salute your mod-honesty and ingenuity. 3 for 2. Awesome.

And, All Hail The Queen! She has been the very best when I have needed her assistance.

[hmbscott]

Rabco,
Thanks! Well, at least my hot rod doesn't sound worse. Really, it just goes to show what a superb design job the folks at Bottlehead do. I'm still not fully convinced that they will be indistinguishable in an extended listening test, and of course it's my daily driver regardless. The builds were a ton of fun. I like to personalize my chassis plates anyway; my custom Moreplay is my forum avatar.