Upgrading Seduction caps? (Newbie alert...) :-)

[rebbi]

Hi,

Nearly a year ago, when I had first finished building my Seduction kit, a member of the forum, mingles, had kindly sent me a couple of capacitors as an upgrade to the kit. They are large things, made in Russia, I think. They are metal on the outside and have a soldering tab at each end of the cylinder. They are what looks like white plastic on each end.

Should I try to install these buggers? And where do they go in the kit??  ;-)

Thank you,

Steve

[Grainger49]

Yes, without a doubt ! ! ! !

I am a big fan of what has come to be called "Kommie Kaps."  Those are made of Teflon.  Teflon is the best dielectric material you can use for a cap.  I'm convinced that the USSR did not pay any royalties to DuPont for the use of Teflon either.  

I have quite a number of these and have put them in just about everything I have.  I bought 30 of the 0.1uF@200V caps and have bypassed my Ack! dAck! output caps, my Seduction output caps, my FP 2 output caps and used them to bypass my FP 2 and Seduction power supplies.  I also used a KK Teflon as my Paramour interstage cap and my Seduction interstage cap.

I guess that kind of says it.  I'm a Capacitor Junkie and big on KK Teflons.

I am pretty sure that the voltage rating is at least 200V, "200B" in Russian.  That is the only question.

[rebbi]

Hi, Grainger,

Thanks a lot for the reply. On the side of the capacitors it says

+/- 5% [Delta]
600B
9201

Does that sound right?

If so, then what to I need to do with those puppies? Do I unsolder and remove the two big capacitors from the Seduction, and replace them with these? And if so, does this cause a problem later on installing the C4S kit?

Thank you,

Ste ve

[Grainger49]

Ok, 600B means 600V.  It is a 5% tolerance but I don't know what the 9201 is, maybe the batch number.  By the way they are probably FT-3 type which is a very nice sounding capacitor.

Above the 600B should be a number like "0,1" followed by "Mk" and the Greek letter Phi which is a circle with a vertical line through it.  That translates as 0.1uF.  You want something in this range or a higher value.  You only need a 200V rating, higher is fine.

You will need to put wire on the solder lugs to attach to the circuit.  You replace the output capacitors with these or you could just bypass (parallel this one with) the output capacitors.  I would do that if it is only a 0.1uF value.  In the stock Seduction the output caps are 0.47uF brown (I think) capacitors.  On one channel the output capacitor is between T32 and the center of the output RCA jack, on the other between T42 and the center of the output RCA jack.  Yes, they are the biggest caps in a stock Seduction.

This shouldn't impair the installation of the C4S board.  

By the way, I have put shrink tubing on my KK Teflon caps because the body is metal and I think it is safer that way.  The yellow cap is a KK Teflon and I am using it in my power supply.  The others that don't look stock are KK Teflons for the RIAA EQ circuit.  (A very kind Bottlehead sent them to me! ! ! )

[rebbi]

Ok, 600B means 600V.  It is a 5% tolerance but I don't know what the 9201 is, maybe the batch number.  By the way they are probably FT-3 type which is a very nice sounding capacitor.

Above the 600B should be a number like "0,1" followed by "Mk" and the Greek letter Phi which is a circle with a vertical line through it.  That translates as 0.1uF.  You want something in this range or a higher value.  You only need a 200V rating, higher is fine.

You will need to put wire on the solder lugs to attach to the circuit.  You replace the output capacitors with these or you could just bypass (parallel this one with) the output capacitors.  I would do that if it is only a 0.1uF value.  In the stock Seduction the output caps are 0.47uF brown (I think) capacitors.  On one channel the output capacitor is between T32 and the center of the output RCA jack, on the other between T42 and the center of the output RCA jack.  Yes, they are the biggest caps in a stock Seduction.

This shouldn't impair the installation of the C4S board.  

By the way, I have put shrink tubing on my KK Teflon caps because the body is metal and I think it is safer that way.  The yellow cap is a KK Teflon and I am using it in my power supply.  The others that don't look stock are KK Teflons for the RIAA EQ circuit.

Okay:

The caps are definitely marked as per your example: 0,1 Mk Phi.

So you're saying, then, that at that value, I can just solder in the new caps to the same points as the current ones, without removing the older, brown ones? Is there any advantage to removing the old ones first?

Thanks for putting up with my questions!

[Grainger49]

Yes, it will work well.  And I have done that myself.  Some say it will cause "smearing" of the sound but no one who has heard my system, and pinpoint imaging, would say that there was any smearing.

The stock capacitor was 0.47uF.  That gives bass down to very low frequencies.  Let me know what our preamp input resistance (impedance) is and I can tell you if it will matter.

By the way.  Teflon capacitors do not sound their best until 100 hours of use.  On this board I have posted my pain free break in method.  And now that I have figured out image posting I will add an image to the post.

Edit:

Click Here For My Post On A Fast Break In Method

This will give you a much better idea of how nice the high frequencies sound with Teflon caps.

[mingles]

Hi Steve,

I'm glad to hear you're going to use the FT-3 caps. Just to be clear, Grainger is suggesting you use them to bypass the 0.47 uF output caps (labeled P474J). My original suggestion was to replace the 0.1 uF input caps (labeled P104J), but the choice is yours. I don't know which will give you the best improvement, but both positions respond to cap rolling.

The metal case of the FT-3 is conductive and needs to be insulated with some kind of tape or shrink wrap so they don't short out. I used a few turns of clear packing tape and that seemed to work fine.

Grainger, thanks for your cap break-in technique! I want to try that some time.

All the best,
Mark

[debk]

I have just ordered the seduction kit.  I have a couple 0.47uF 200V FT-3 caps on hand.  Should I just replace the standard 0.47uF caps with these when I build the kit? 


Debra

[debk]

what about Dynamicaps?  Would you suggest them over the FT-3's?

Would it be best to replace both the 0.47uF output caps and 0.1uF input caps?

Thanks

Debra

[Grainger49]

Debra,

The Dynamicaps are good Polypropylene film caps.  The Teflon caps are even nicer.  

Since it is easy to swap the output caps in the Seduction I would start with the stock metalized Polypropylene caps.  Listen for a week or two.  Change to already broken in Dynamicaps.  Give them a week or two and change for already broken in Teflon KKs.  I didn't suggest that the stock caps be broken in because they break in much faster.  

The reason that most of us suggest you build stock first is to gain the knowledge of what the differences are.  The stock Seduction is a sweet sounding phono stage.  My first tweak probably was new caps.  You already have a soldering iron, the output caps are right on top, once you flip it over, so the swap out is easy.  Just be careful not to put too much heat into the RCA jack.  The insulator between the center conductor and the outer conductor can soften and make the center post crooked.

The 0.1uF cap is between the first tube stage and the second tube stage.  I changed mine out and didn't get nearly as big a change as I did with the output, 0.47uF, cap.  Not even close!  I don't really understand that, but that is what happened.  Once the broken in Teflons were in my Seduction I didn't bother to pull  them out.  I'm just saying that the interstage capacitor being changed doesn't have as great an effect as the output capacitor being changed.