VPI 16.5

[azrockitman]

I've been wringing my hands, going back and forth, reading about the nitty gritty versus the VPI.  Both were more money than I wanted to spend.  And while the NG had a decent option at $450 for the manual spin, manual fluid choice, I found a VPI on eeebay that is currently listed for $202, but 4 days left.  I started following but I've never been fortunate to get something at auction.  I was starting to lean towards just getting the entry level NG....when....

last night I was poking around on another audio site with the initials MD, and noticed they had a demo'd VPI 16.5 for $479.  "Demo'd" record cleaning machine didn't quite sound right...how were they going to demo it?  So i called the guy I've used several times and he checked it out and it was a shipped/opened unit that a business ordered by mistake (Another dept already had one) and the unit was shipped back never used. No hours on the machine at all but their policy wouldn't allow reselling as new.   So I went that direction and should have it next week.  I ordered an extra cork mat (see, I've been reading and doing my homework!      )

I'm pretty excited.  I don't have any filthy records, but none of them have ever been cleaned by anything other than a preener/dustbug or modern day equivalent of the preener.  And I know it would be good to clean even new LP"s  I own.  This will also give me more reason to try some garage sale and other used LP's. 

So, is VPI's own solution good/the best/not so good?  Is the AIVS  "Premium Record Cleaner Formula No. 15" that I see referenced on this site the best single solution to use?
Thanks

[Paully]

I have used multiple fluids, and in my experience and what I have seen, you are better off with Audio Intelligent fluids.  I think I use their one step no. 6.  If I had a VPI instead of a Nitty Gritty, I would use their three step process, as it is a lot easier to accomplish than on a NG.  But if you don't want the expense and trouble, I would say one of their one step solutions would be a very good bet.

[galyons]

I bought a VPI 16 in the early '90s.  Upgraded it to 16.5 when VPI made the kit available.  It just keeps going and going, so the bottom line is that it SUCKS!   

Make your own cleaning solution.  IMO technique trumps chemicals. There are a multitude of formulas/recipes available online. Try:http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/fluids.html I have separate brushes for enzyme cleaner, alcohol  based cleaner and distilled water rinse.

My formula is:  1 quart 91% Isopropyl alcohol, ( make sure that it is just alcohol and water, not rubbing alcohol with mineral or lanolin oils). 3 quarts distilled water and 2 drops  of Triton X-100 surfactant.  You can use a couple of drops of Dawn dish detergent if no Triton.  DO NOT use Kodak PhotoFlo!  It will leave a nasty film on the vinyl.  (I am large format film photographer.  My darkroom processor uses plastic tanks and reels and the manufacturer expressly forbids the use of Photoflo!!)


I first wash with an enzyme fluid, (I use the old formula of Spray n Wash diluted 10:1 with water, but I think it is now NLA).  Then the alcohol based cleaner and finally a distilled water rinse.  I don't vacuum after the enzyme, I apply some alcohol base cleaner to dilute then I have a couple of old Dishwasher brushes to sop up the fluid.  Cleaner => vacuum..distilled water => vacuum.   I find this process works well on even the most disgusting of used records.  An additional benefit is that the process cleans the velvet on the vacuum tube!

Cheers,
Geary


http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/fluids.html

[4krow]

 I also owned a 16.5, and for the most part, I liked it. The one thing that watched for was TOO much suction. I mean that if this happens, the cleaning wand is brought down on the vinyl hard enough to crush under the fibers allowing the rubber material of the wand to contact the grooves. This didn't happen but once or twice, but I was quite shy after that. It seemed that my machine had a sticking wand that helped cause this. I sold the machine in search of new ways to deal with vinyl. I think it was an anomaly with my machine, and as I stated overall, I find the machine to be a winner.

[Grainger49]

I, too, have had a 16.5 since sometime in the 90s.  I have been through several cleaners, VPI, Record Doctor, enzymatic, home made with alcohol/water/Fotoflow and others I can't remember.  The AIVS #15 and Ultra Pure Water rinse has been the best of all.

[porcupunctis]

I love my 16.5.  I got mine used at a good price and it still works like a beast.

I can buy records at flea market prices and they clean up and play like new (most of the time).  I've had more fun with records recently than I have in a long time.

Now that I have one, I would have gladly paid the full price.

[Grainger49]

Hey, mine is used, used by me for about 18 years and cleans extremely well.  I have changed the "lips" on my pickup tube once, and finally bought a second one for RINSE, old one for CLEAN.  They are labeled, of course!  So are my Disk Doctor brushes.

I have demonstrated to several guys how much better the OSAGE AIVS fluids are. 

And Jim Pendleton is one of the great guys in audio.  Think Dan but in his 60s.

[denti alligator]

How do you replace the lips on the tube, Grainger?

I love my 16.5, too, but it took me a while to get the right routine for best cleaning. I, too, use the Audio Intelligent fluids, and highly recommend them.

My routine:

1. apply formula 14 to record using VPI brush, agitate a little make sure even distribution across record.

2. Let record sit for 4 minutes

3. Agitate fluid again for another 30 seconds or so

4. Vaccuum off (exactly 3 revolutions)

5. Apply pure water with a different brush (I use Audio Intelligent brushes). Agitate for a minute, making sure water gets into the grooves

6. Vaccuum off (exactly 3 revolutions)

7. Repeat steps 5 and 6

8. Put record in new MoFi (or equivalent) sleeve

The second rinse may be excessive, but I find it helps a great deal. The number of revolutions in vaccuuming is key. I was using 4-5 at first and this seemed to cause problems, I.e. static build-up, that negated some of the effects of the cleaning. I also dispensed with my MoFi brushes, which I felt were leaving a residue.

[Grainger49]

There are a number of sources.  I bought a new pair of lips from DCC Blowout on this page:

http://www.dccblowout.com/dept.asp?dept_id=15-013

You have to wrestle the old lips off, there is gooey glue, so Goo Gone is recommended.  Clean the tube of all residue then carefully put the new ones on.

Sam, I, too am a 3 revolution guy.  It certainly doesn't hurt and I'm not sure that after 2 revolutions all liquid is gone.

[azrockitman]

Thanks, I have a #15 and a jug o dat pure-ass water coming my way.