Tube Phono Stage Advice

[thdewitt]

Hello.  So my Stereomour/Submissive is up and running along with the Blumenstein Orca Deluxes.  I recently upgraded to Mogami/Switchcraft interconnects, New JJ Audio 2a3 tubes, Mullard 4024, and Mogami 10 Gauge Speaker wire.

I am getting the urge to start a new kit.

For my Phono stage right now I am using a solid state unit from Music Hall the pa1.2.  Can anyone give me advice on whether a Tube Phono Stage would add anything to my system.  Which Bottlehead Phono stage would be a better match for what I already have?  I have a Music Hall MMF 2.1 Turntable.  My collection of LP's is pretty small at just 48 titles.  I am expanding a few titles every couple of months.

The remainder of my music is being sent from my Mac Mini through Jriver to my Odac and then to the Submissive/Steremour.  They are mostly iTunes Albums but I do have a few HDtracks.  Also use spottily pretty regularly to try new music.  The sound of the Orcas with this set up is amazing!!!

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38833957/2014-06-23%2014.08.32.jpg)

[Paul Joppa]

Long ago my late father had several bits of good advice about tools. First one was "don't buy a tool before you have a use for it, and then get a really good one." Second one was "don't spend more on tools than the object you will use them on."

As you can imagine, these are sometimes in conflict. Nevertheless, if you value vinyl records at $10 each then spending $480 to hear 48 albums is about the practical limit.

Of course, if you are buying the experience of building rather than a tool to listen with, these ideas will not be relevant!

[thdewitt]

Man, I love posts like that.  Just really cool advice to live by.  Unfortunately I derive an immense amount of joy and satisfaction from just building bottlehead kits.  I imagine that I will build all of them before I am through and will most likely never be able to part with them as they become very personal as you build them and enjoy them.  I guess I was hoping someone would talk some common sense in to me and keep me from buying the Tube Phono Amp at $7,500.

Thanks for the advice.  It is a really cool thing to be able to speak directly to people that are so knowledgeable and creative.  This is what makes the bottlehead experience so wonderful.

Thanks,
Tom

[Doc B.]

My spin on that would be "Don't buy tools that you need to buy tools to fix so that you can use them". Anybody into vintage test gear will know what I am talking about.

[Paul Joppa]

I think that comes under buying a GOOD tool when you do have to get one!

[thdewitt]

Great comments.  So I have a question.  I am considering buying the Reduction.  More to enjoy building it than anything else.   I have found that currently when I output from the Mac mini I need to reduce the volume to 80% to volume match the phono stage volume when switching back and forth. (I have the Musical Hall pa1.2)  So, would the reduction have more gain that may more closely match what I am getting from the Mac Mini or will I always need to adjust the volume. 

BTW, I discovered this as I was trying to see if I could hear the difference between the Norah Jones Vinyl versus the digital version so I was switching back and forth. I was very clear that 80% volume on the Mac Mini matched the volume of the phone stage.

Does that make sense. 

By the way, when I bought my crack I bought an Oscilliscope, a Power Supply, a function generator and a ton of electronic components and books to try and learn all I could.  I even was recently searching for a tube tester and I have about 30 Nos tubes in a drawer.  Does that violate this rule.

My spin on that would be "Don't buy tools that you need to buy tools to fix so that you can use them". Anybody into vintage test gear will know what I am talking about.

My wife says I have ADHD 

[Grainger49]

The Bottlehead tubed phono stages are not "classic" tube sound.  The sound is more detailed, not lacking in bass definition, not soft on the highs. 

The Bottlehead sound, as you have come to know, is detailed and extended.  I bought the Seduction the day it came out.  It replaced an Audio Research SP-14.  The sound of the Seduction beat it out easily.  Seduction has been superseded by Reduction.

Years later poster Paully loaned me his Eros for a weekend.  I wanted one immediately. 

[Paul Birkeland]

Great comments.  So I have a question.  I am considering buying the Reduction.  More to enjoy building it than anything else.   I have found that currently when I output from the Mac mini I need to reduce the volume to 80% to volume match the phono stage volume when switching back and forth. (I have the Musical Hall pa1.2)  So, would the reduction have more gain that may more closely match what I am getting from the Mac Mini or will I always need to adjust the volume. 

The PA1.2 has 40dB of gain, the stock Reduction is 36dB, and the upgraded Reduction is going to be about 40dB.  The extra gain of the Eros would more closely match the output of your Mac Mini, but this would be a strange reason for purchasing preference.  It is also important to consider that the phono cartridge will influence the output level of your phono preamp, and purchasing an external DAC for your Mac Mini will almost certainly change the output level of your digital setup. 

[corndog71]

Older recordings tend to be lower in level as well.

When I'm shuffling all of my music from classical to metal I do adjust the volume from track to track.  There is no volume standard.  That's why we have volume controls.

[BNAL]

Tom,

What stands out for me in the picture is the audio enhancement tool. It looks to be a Stones IPA.

I have been going to record store in Lucadia, since it is close and they sell used LPs at a reasonable price.

Brad

[Grainger49]

I have a thread in Grainger's Corner about recommended Record Stores.  How about a post there?  (It could be pages back)

[thdewitt]

Tom,

What stands out for me in the picture is the audio enhancement tool. It looks to be a Stones IPA.

I have been going to record store in Lucadia, since it is close and they sell used LPs at a reasonable price.

Brad

Ha, Ha, it never hurts to have a few IPA's on hand especially if they are local.  I have quite a few friends in the beer business and I brewed beer for a very long time. 

I go to Lou's records quite often.  Good place for records.  I live only about 2 miles from there.

[BNAL]

Tom,

I wish I could tell you how the Reduction sounds, but I don't think you can go wrong with it I never have with any BH kit, and since you get enjoymnet out of building the kits, it has the Integration upgrade. This will provide you with another opertunity to get under the hood and upgrade it.

I'm a little further away in Carlsbad. We do live in the land of craft beers.

Brad