Help me find parts to repair a fried amp

williaty · 3510

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Offline williaty

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on: May 13, 2014, 05:35:02 PM
This is a non-bottlehead piece of gear but you guys are some of the most helpful people about this kind of stuff. A power amp of mine fried last week because it had cheap electrolytic caps that were 10-12 years old and had been exposed to lots of bad grid power in that time. I need to replace them. They're 50V 2200uF electrolytics with a diameter of 18mm and a radial lead spacing of 7.5mm. I looked them up on Newark and there's 27 options that meet those requirements! How on earth do you pick out which of those 27 options is best for your application?

Hopefully, this text will link you to the filtered results of the search

So, what should I go with?



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 05:41:04 PM
In situations like this, it's really helpful to know what caps were in there in the first place (which may also help to determine why they might have gone).  If you don't have access to that, then you'd want to do a quite PSUD model of the power supply and look at things like the ripple current and peak voltage that the cap sees. 

If the manufacturer of the amp is still around, they may also have some recommendations on what to replace them with. 


Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline mcandmar

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Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 05:43:55 PM
My preference is always for Panasonics in power supply's, and Elna Silmic II for audio paths.  Assuming its for a power supply and @2200uf look at the FC, FM or HD series.

Generally i pair them down to those they will physically fit, then i look for the highest ripple rating and lowest ESR rating, usually sorting by price will do that for you :)

M.McCandless


Offline williaty

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Reply #3 on: May 13, 2014, 05:44:12 PM
The caps that are in there now say:

Code: [Select]
R.M
50V
2200uF

CD110
85*C
NN*03

It's a Cambridge Audio P500 but they haven't been helpful in the past.



Offline williaty

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Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 05:48:49 PM
Oh, cool. Googling that didn't turn up anything before but this time it found a hit on BadCapacitors.com which led to the manufacturer. This link will get you the product spec PDF. Which specs do I need to match beyond the ones I've already matched?



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #5 on: May 13, 2014, 05:51:13 PM
This is probably an OK replacement:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UHE1H222MHD6/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22fd5duZ20ROuH%252bH6dfEJcxs%3d

There's no way of really knowing what caused the failure.  It could be that the voltage rating should be higher, the ripple current was too high, the operating temperature was too high, etc.

Sometimes the best guess is to look for a 10,000 hour at 105C part and give it a shot, but as always, YMMV.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline williaty

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Reply #6 on: May 13, 2014, 05:52:43 PM
It's astonishing how cheap these electrolytics are compared to the films for my Crack :lol:



Offline mcandmar

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Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 06:01:39 PM

M.McCandless


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #8 on: May 13, 2014, 06:15:05 PM
Just a note on the Panasonic FC's - I really like this cap as a cathode bypass cap, but in power supply duty, a very well known car audio amplifier manufacturer made a whole ton of amps with 16V Panasonic FC's on the raw 12V rail (which may sit at ~14V) which failed after a few years of use. 

I suspect, however, that a 25V rated FC wouldn't have had this problem.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline mcandmar

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Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 06:30:21 PM
Yikes that was cutting it a bit close, 14.4v is what i would expect to see, and its never that well regulated either. 25v caps would have been the sensible choice in that application..

M.McCandless


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 06:49:27 PM
Caps are spec'd at hours of lifetime at a temperature (20 degrees higher spec means 4 times the life) and at rated current and voltage. Reducing any of those - temp, voltage, or current - will increase the lifetime.

They are also rated for ripple current at a certain frequency. Those rated at 100kHz are very likely to sound better than those rated only at 120Hz, because their equivalent series inductance is much lower.

Brand-name caps from a supplier with a good long-term reputation are less likely to be fakes.

In my experience, those considerations will eliminate more than 90% of the candidates on any list, leaving you free to choose on a whim, rumor, personal experience, color, price, or whatever floats your boat. Only personal experience has any chance of being a reliable predictor, and I wouldn't bet much money on it either.  :^)

Paul Joppa


Offline williaty

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Reply #11 on: June 24, 2014, 07:35:28 PM
Took me a long time to circle back to this and get it resolved but it's done now. Thanks to your help, I went with the Panny FC caps and got the installed a few days ago. I finally had time to test things today and was at first dismayed. When hooked up, the audio coming out of the speakers was terribly distorted and buzzy. Thinking the repair had been botched somehow, I called my friend the electrical engineer and asked him what other problem might have existed. He asked if it sounded distorted to me or if it sounded like half the waveform were missing. Upon thinking about that question, it did sound very much like half the waveform was missing. I poked around inside the chassis, trying to find something that would give me an audible crackle. I couldn't find anything.

Now, a small digression into some necessary backstory. When I first bought this power amp back in the early 2000s, it was for use with a Foreplay II. The FPII had, into this overly-sensitive amp, too much gain and too much noise. So, in addition to building the Sweet Whispers in the -20 to -50dB configuration, I hacked up the small cable inside the power amp that ran from the RCA input PCB to the main amp PCB and added 10dB L-pads at the inputs to the main PCB. After doing so, I contacted Cambridge Audio and asked if I could obtain another unmolested cable in case I ever wanted to go back. Fast forwards to last month and, in the midst of acquiring and rearranging components of my stereo, I had this power amp hooked up to a solid state preamp. Since I no longer needed the 10dB of padding, I swapped to the virgin cable Cambridge had provided me. When the amp suddenly sounded terrible, I re-opened the case and noticed all the bulging and leaned over caps and figured that was the problem.

So today, after failing the test playing, I opened the chassis back up and looked for possibilities. Looking at the PCB, I quickly realized that the fact that I could hear the distortion in both channels meant that there were VERY few possibilities for the failure point as the only pieces the channels share in common are the cable that carries the audio signal from the RCA jacks to the board and the toroidal transformer on the AC mains. Everything after that was a dual mono configuration. I couldn't think of any possible way the tranny could fail that would result in buzzing. As far as I know, the things either conduct or don't. So, impossible as it seemed to me, it had to be the small cable Cambridge had provided. Swapping it more out of pedanticness than actual expectation it'd do anything, I buttoned the chassis back up, tested again, and was rewarded with completely proper function and possibly even a little better performance than I had a month ago (not surprising considering the 8 failed caps).

I still don't understand what you could be wrong with the little internal interconnect cable that would lead to it sounding like half the waveform was missing, but it's obviously the problem.