SEX amp power transformer wiring

Neuronal · 14818

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Offline Neuronal

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on: August 20, 2010, 03:26:28 AM
Hi - I've gotten to the part in my SEX amp build where I am wiring the power transformer - right below the part in bold that says clearly not to mess this part up :> . I have made some teflon twisted pair, and connected transformer terminal 7 to terminal 4, and transformer terminal 6 to terminal 2. When I check continuity both 7 -->4 and 6 --->2 are correct and I get a satisfying beep from my DMM. However when I check 7--->2 my meter reads 80 ohms or so instead of infinity (and gives a single beep when I first make contact before settling in to 80 ohms - this is very different from what happens if I touch two unconnected terminals, in which case my Fluke 179 doesn't beep or read anything at all). Same thing if I check 6--->4, I get 80 ohms or so. I can't see a short anywhere - are these readings normal, or did I mess something up? Thanks for your advice-

Bob D. 

Bob D
Rega P2, Cosecant DAC, Reduction, EFP III, Paramount V1.0 + soft start, Omega CAMs + DeepHemp 8s


Offline JC

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Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 09:24:59 AM
I am unclear on what you are describing, but is it possible that you are measuring across one of the secondary windings when you get the ~80 Ohm reading?

The reason I ask is that seems very close to the ~83.4 Ohm note I have on my schematic for the HV secondaries of that transformer.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 09:34:02 AM by JC »

Jim C.


Offline Neuronal

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Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 01:23:42 PM
JC - thanks for answering, and sorry if I was not being clear. I guess that when I was checking continuity (after the first wiring step) I expected transformer terminal 7 to be continuous with terminal 4 (after soldering), and transformer terminal 6 to be continuous with terminal 2(after soldering). That turned out to be true, but the other thing I was expecting was that if I then checked to see if transformer terminal 7 was continuous with terminal 2 (or conversely if I checked if transformer terminal 6 was continuous with terminal 4) there would be no continuity. Instead the meter says there is an 80 Ohms between TT7 and T2 (and also 80 Ohms between TT6 and T4). That surprised me, but it would make sense if transformer terminals 6 and 7 are connected inside the transformer with 80 Ohms between them - is that the case (and can you tell I have no idea what happens in a transformer :) )? And, if I could ask an even newbier question, where did you get the schematic that shows the expected resistances between the terminals of the transformer - I couldn't find one in my copy of the SEX manual. Thank you so much for offering your insight - I really want to proceed with the build, and just want everything to make sense before I do any damage. I really appreciate your help...

Bob D
Rega P2, Cosecant DAC, Reduction, EFP III, Paramount V1.0 + soft start, Omega CAMs + DeepHemp 8s


Offline Jim R.

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Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 03:22:07 PM
Bob,

If you haven't connected anything to the second secondary (tt9 andtt10) go ahead and measure the ohms between them and it should be very close if not exactly the same as you read for the other secondary -- approx 80 ohms.

Inside a transformer are several windings of wire around a core, and they ar typically fairly small guage wires and very long, so they almost always have some series ressistance that even our inexpensive test gear can measure.

Very basic explanation, but I hope it gets the point across.

-- Jim

Jim Rebman -- recovering audiophile

Equitech balanced power; uRendu, USB processor -> Musette DAC -> 5670 tube buffer -> Finale Audio F138 FFX -> Cain and Cain Abbys near-field).

s.e.x. 2.1 under construction.  Want list: Stereomour II

All ICs homemade (speaker and power next)


Offline JC

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Reply #4 on: August 20, 2010, 03:23:39 PM
No, I think I was just being lazy about working my way through what you were describing.

Now that I've taken the time, I believe you are describing the connection of a HV secondary to lugs on a terminal strip, using a section of twisted pair.  In which case, you are, in effect, extending the terminals of the transformer to specific new points; so, measuring between the two points on the terminal strip is essentially the same thing as measuring between the two lugs on the transformer.

If my surmise is correct, then you are indeed measuring that secondary winding that terminates on transformer lugs 6 & 7.  Inside the transformer, the winding consists of a long length of a specific gauge of wire wound in basically a coil.  The winding is likely more complicated than a simple coil, particularly in a transformer with more than one output, but as far as DC resistance is concerned, the main factor is that you are measuring a very long piece of wire from one end to the other.  That wire has a certain characteristic DC resistance-per-unit-of-length which is a function of what it is made of, the cross-sectional area or gauge, its temperature, etc.  In the specification for the wire, this is usually listed as so many Ohms per thousand feet, or something similar.

The reason I had this note on my copy of the schematic was that I took a DC resistance measurement on the primary coil and the individual secondary coils of the transformer before I hooked anything up to it and made notes about the results on a copy of the schematic.  Usually, such knowledge isn't really necessary unless you are designing a power supply from scratch, but I was curious.  And, taking such measurements after stuff is hooked up may make for inaccurate measurements, so I took them first.

If all you have hooked up are leads, you can check this for yourself.
You will find, among other things, that the secondary for the low-Voltage supply for the tube heaters has a much lower DC resistance, probably a fraction of an Ohm depending on how accurate your meter is.  This secondary terminates, I believe, at transformer terminals 4&5.  You will also notice that the leads coming out of the interior of the transformer that attach to these terminals are of a much heavier gauge than the ones at 6&7, due in large part to the fact that this secondary, though much lower in Voltage, provides significantly more current than the HV windings.  So, since the wire used in this coil has a larger cross-section and the length is very likely much shorter, the resistance is much lower.  Don't worry if your meter has trouble getting an accurate reading on this winding, though; most digital meters don't do all that well on resistances less than an Ohm unless they have a range specifically designed for such work.  The other HV winding terminates at transformer terminals 9&10 if memory serves, and that should give you a very similar reading to 6&7.

The primary winding terminates on transformer terminals 1&2 as I recall, and there is no reason not to measure that resistance as well if you are so inclined.  Just make sure that you have no power attached if you do so since that is where your AC mains connect.

I believe the main thing Paul Joppa, who designed this transformer, is concerned with is that each lug from the transformer is properly connected to a specific point in the following circuitry.  In other words, no swapping 6 for 7, 9 for 10, etc.  So, if you take care to follow those instructions carefully and make sure that each transformer terminal connects only to the exact terminal it is supposed to, you should be good to go.

But, by all means come here and ask questions as they come up. I find it's always better to be sure before moving on, rather than having to re-do something later. The only dumb questions are the ones that don't get asked, and the posters on this forum are very, very good at responding helpfully.
 

Jim C.


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #5 on: August 20, 2010, 03:54:06 PM
You guys are amazing! I'm late to the party, but you've all got it figured out, exactly correctly. Nothing left for me to do but congratulate you!

Paul Joppa


Offline JC

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Reply #6 on: August 20, 2010, 04:06:53 PM
Well, actually, now that you're here, I have a question:  I have never been entirely clear about what it is about the design of this transformer that leads you to be so particular about how the secondaries are hooked up.  Is there a simple explanation that wouldn't give away any proprietary info?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 04:20:11 PM by JC »

Jim C.


Offline Neuronal

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Reply #7 on: August 20, 2010, 04:08:00 PM
JC and Jrebman - Thanks so much! It is all much clearer now, and I will definitely take my own measurements so I can learn a bit about the innards of the transformer. On another note, it is so nice to have joined such a generous community - you guys really are the best!
thanks again - Bob D.

Bob D
Rega P2, Cosecant DAC, Reduction, EFP III, Paramount V1.0 + soft start, Omega CAMs + DeepHemp 8s


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #8 on: August 20, 2010, 05:12:30 PM
Well, actually, now that you're here, I have a question:  I have never been entirely clear about what it is about the design of this transformer that leads you to be so particular about how the secondaries are hooked up.  Is there a simple explanation that wouldn't give away any proprietary info?
No secret. The high voltage windings are bifilar, so the only insulation between the two wires is their coating - used to be enamel, these days it's some kind of plastic similar to nylon and called by various proprietary names. The wires are adjacent throughout their length, which is about 450 feet. The thin coating is easily damaged, so it's not really safe to allow a high voltage to develop between the wires. If there are nearby cracks, anywhere along the 450 feet of wire, they could arc. That would damage the insulation further, and possibly short some turns. A shorted turn would quickly overheat, further damaging this and other windings - not safe! By keeping the windings in the same phase, and feeding more or less identical circuits, their voltage difference remains small - too small to arc even if bare wire is exposed in spots.

This is what it takes to make identical dual-mono power supplies, which is required for the WE split-rail bias scheme, which in turn allows the output transformer primary winding to be grounded in autoformer mode, thus making sure that the headphones can't be exposed to high voltage even if there is a failure in the output transformers - which are not specified to safely handle any DC voltage between the windings.

If and/or when there is a revision, I'll have my own output transformers built which can safely take voltage on the primary, and do away with the dual power supplies, leaving a single high voltage winding.

Paul Joppa


Offline JC

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Reply #9 on: August 20, 2010, 05:30:52 PM
Thank you, Paul.  If I understand you, then, the two HV secondaries are wound adjacent to one another?  So it is necessary to keep them connected identically and basically in the same phase so that the potential difference between the two stays low?

As you may have guessed, I'm not all that familiar with the actual mechanics of transformers!  I guess every time I thought I might dissect one, I always thought of something to use it for!

BTW, I rather like the dual-mono supplies!

Jim C.