New 300B's

galyons · 8729

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Offline galyons

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on: February 01, 2021, 08:04:01 AM
I am posting these here, rather than the sections for kit that use 300B's.  My comments specifically cover the Paramounts and BeePre, (because they are the kit I have!!), but probably are valid for the Kaiju, too. We have never had the large selection of 300B's from which to choose.  It is really surprisingly exciting!!   I tried a new 300B WE "replica" and am quite impressed.  These tube are branded Cossor's, (a British label), although identical to the Linlai WE300B.  They can be had for about $500 per pair, which I consider a real bargain!

I have about 100 hours on the Cossor WE330B's.  The have developed into exceptionally nice sounding tubes! I have use them in my Bottlehead Paramount 300B amps. for over 10 years. I have modified, and upgraded them for over 10 years. So I know how they sound. I also built the Bottlehead 300B preamp about 5 years ago. Over the years I have tried a variety of premium and mid range 300B's from China, Russia and the Czech Republic, (Vaic, KR and JJ). I do not particularly like the sound of the Eastern European 300B tubes. They are good tubes, just not to my taste, Some say that they sound balanced from bass to extended treble. To me. they sound too solid state! (The JJ's not as much.) IMO they lack the full warm midrange that is the main reason to use a 300B in the first place.

The Sophia tubes sounded good, but were very unreliable making their actual cost very expensive. The Royal Princess's sounded really good, but did not last through the warranty period, As soon as I got the replacement pair I sold them. I also tried several variations of Shuguang and Psvane over the years. I settled on the Shuguang Black Glass 50 Year Treasures in my preamp and the Gold Lions in the power amps. They sound really good. Warm detailed mids, good extension in the treble and bass. (My speakers are 1960's EV 3 way horns that I rebuilt and modified, The bass rolls off pretty quickly just above 40Hz.), Most importantly they have proven to be extremely reliable in my system.

At about 100 hours on the Cossor 300B's, they sound much better than the Gold Lions and the Treasures. The mid range is warm, detailed and balanced.  The tubes have great timbre, solid imaging and the soundstage is well defined, extending well behind my speakers. The bass and treble are also better than the Shuguang and Gold Lion. As would be expected, they continue to improve as they burn-in. At the price, I know of no other tube that comes close.  I mostly listen to jazz, classical, blues, vocals and the occasional dino rock.  The Cossors excel in providing both the intimacy of a small ensemble and  the grandeur of a full symphony orchestra.  They are more dynamic than the  Shuguang and Gold Lion tubes with more impact on the leading edge of transients.  Males and female voices are rendered very life like, with none of the chestiness of the lesser tubes.

There are many tubes available that claim to be Western Electric clones.  The Cossor's are the only moderately priced 300Bs that actually do replicate the WE structure.  The plates and the hanging filaments appear almost identical. The hanging filaments make a huge difference in the sound quality. If a 300B has the little filament coils above the top mica, they just are not that close to actual WE structure.  I know of no other 300B with hanging filaments that come close to the Cossor's in terms of price.  I would say if you are looking at a $250-400 pair of 300Bs, getting the Cossors for $500 would be a wise investment, in terms of sound quality.

I also recently received a pair of the new Western Electric 300B 2019 reissues. I placed the order January of last year! It would be hard to argue that they should not be the default benchmark upon which to do new 300B comparisons. They sound even better than the Cossors, as one would expect at 3 times the price. They do sound a little drier in the mids than the Cossor s, but that is gradually opening up, (at about 50 hours). The bass is tighter and the treble has an effortless detail that the WE's were not available for direct comparison, I could easily enjoy the Cossor's without any thought of missing something.

I am currently running the WE s in the preamp and the Cossors in the power amps. Both pairs still need much more burn in. The bottomline? I know of no other 300B's in $500 range that even come close. In summary, I would not consider any premium 300B replica that did not have a hanging filament design. It makes that much difference. The originals did, as well as the current Western Electric reissues. The next step up from the Cossar's, at least in terms of price, would be the Psvane Acmes or the Linlai Elite E-300B, Permalloy, again these are twice the price of the Cossor 300B WE's and not really designed to sound like the Western Electric tubes, but to compete with the Eastern European tubes.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 08:40:02 AM by galyons »

VPI TNT IV/JMW 3D 12+Benz LP-S>  Eros + Auralic Aries + ANK Dac 4.1 >Eros TH+ Otari MX5050 IIIB2 > BeePre >Paramount 300B 7N7 > EV Sentry IV-A

Thorens TD124/Ortofon RMG-212/SPU >Seduction > Smash^Up> Paramour 45 MQ >K12's


Offline debk

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Reply #1 on: February 01, 2021, 08:30:02 AM
I have read very good things about the Psvane ACME,  I just bought a pair to use in my Kaiju when I get/ and build it.  I hope the live up to alll the hype.  I have also heard a lot of good things about the Linlai Elite 300b also



Debra

Debra K

Eros 2Phono amp
BeePre2, Psvane ACME 300b
Kaiju, Linlai Elite  300b
Monamour 2a3 amps various tubes
Sota Sapphire, Pete Riggle Woody Tonearm, Kiseki Purpleheart Cartridge
Rega P6 Ania Pro cartridge
Roon Nucleus
MHDT Labs Orchid DAC
Jager speakers


Offline galyons

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Reply #2 on: February 01, 2021, 03:35:26 PM
I have read very good things about the Psvane ACME,  I just bought a pair to use in my Kaiju when I get/ and build it.  I hope the live up to alll the hype.  I have also heard a lot of good things about the Linlai Elite 300b also

Debra

I am thinking to get a pair of the Acme's, as well.  I would likely use them in the BeePre and run the WE reissues in the Paramounts.  That would give a "standard" to compare the tubes in the Paramounts.  The Cossor's are made by Linlai.  They, IMO, are really a bargain in mid priced 300B's, but comparing them to the WE reissues with the same tubes in the BeePre would make for a more valid conclusion.

Positive Feedback just did a review of the Acme's and Elite's in a Lampizator DAC.  https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/300b-tubes/

I am pretty amazed how many 300B's we have in the market, especially compared to 10 years ago!

Cheers,
Geary


VPI TNT IV/JMW 3D 12+Benz LP-S>  Eros + Auralic Aries + ANK Dac 4.1 >Eros TH+ Otari MX5050 IIIB2 > BeePre >Paramount 300B 7N7 > EV Sentry IV-A

Thorens TD124/Ortofon RMG-212/SPU >Seduction > Smash^Up> Paramour 45 MQ >K12's


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #3 on: February 02, 2021, 02:51:18 AM
Geary, my only worry is how they hold up over time.  Thanks for taking one for the team and ordering a pair.  I'll keep these on my short list of potential tubes in the future. 

Aaron Johnson


Offline galyons

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Reply #4 on: February 02, 2021, 07:04:51 AM
Interesting! Divorce is almost always ugly!  Grant Fidelitiy literally "created" the demand for Psvane tubes! Now....

+++ Scroll down on HOMEPAGE to read 'IMMEDIATE NEWS RELEASE' - ALL Psvane branded tubes to be DISCONTINUED as of Feb 7th, 2021 +++

https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/for-immediate-news-release-grant-fidelity-will-discontinue-the-entire-psvane-line-as-of-8pm-mst-feb-7th-2021/

VPI TNT IV/JMW 3D 12+Benz LP-S>  Eros + Auralic Aries + ANK Dac 4.1 >Eros TH+ Otari MX5050 IIIB2 > BeePre >Paramount 300B 7N7 > EV Sentry IV-A

Thorens TD124/Ortofon RMG-212/SPU >Seduction > Smash^Up> Paramour 45 MQ >K12's


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #5 on: February 02, 2021, 07:19:53 AM
There are lots of places to get those tubes.  The closer you get to the factory, the less they tend to cost.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline pboser

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Reply #6 on: February 02, 2021, 09:00:27 AM
I was unfamiliar with these and did some googling - found this: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32955227733.html 
As PB suggests, cheaper when ordering closer to origin.

Peter Boser


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #7 on: February 02, 2021, 11:27:17 AM
"In the past decade, we have returned thousands of defective tubes".

Retailer as victim only makes sense in the short term. Not for ten years. That's masochism.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline galyons

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Reply #8 on: February 02, 2021, 12:13:23 PM
I was unfamiliar with these and did some googling - found this: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32955227733.html 
As PB suggests, cheaper when ordering closer to origin.

I spent 25 years in FinTech, buying thousands of electronic boards and  equipment from China.  Every production line has a quality curve, just like most any process, that curve is the good old bell.  Depending on your quality control parameters, you set  the point(s) on that bell curve that were acceptable.  My experience is that most Chinese manufacturers adhere to and honor those contractual requirements.  Early on all business was transacted via Commercial Letter of Credit and later by wire transfer of funds.  With the advent of worldwide electronic credit/debit card transactions, sales direct to single unit and small lot buyers made the online sales platforms boom. 

Almost all products eventually wind up somewhere in the supply chain.  We had boards and equipment that we rejected, wind up being sold to others. Sometime that worked out for them, many times it did not.  Yes, most of the time they got the products for a cheaper price and the lower performance may still have been a good value for them.  But often we were contacted to get our experience with the products only to find, by lot and serial number, it was actually our rejected lots.

Much of the equipment and/or boards were sold via Alibaba/Aliexpress.  The platforms are online "street markets".  Some manufacturers utilize the site to broaden their distribution and probably sell the better quality products directly B2B/B2C.  Far too many are alternative sellers of B, C, & D grade products.

I agree with PB, with the caveat that usually you can get good prices from a trusted supplier directly, if not the factory direct, located close to point of manufacture.  That said, I personally, would not buy premium tubes via the Alibaba/Aliexpress platform.

Cheers,
Geary
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 12:28:21 PM by galyons »

VPI TNT IV/JMW 3D 12+Benz LP-S>  Eros + Auralic Aries + ANK Dac 4.1 >Eros TH+ Otari MX5050 IIIB2 > BeePre >Paramount 300B 7N7 > EV Sentry IV-A

Thorens TD124/Ortofon RMG-212/SPU >Seduction > Smash^Up> Paramour 45 MQ >K12's


Offline debk

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Reply #9 on: February 02, 2021, 12:40:08 PM
I have had good luck with Hifi-amplifiers.com for these tube.


Deb

Debra K

Eros 2Phono amp
BeePre2, Psvane ACME 300b
Kaiju, Linlai Elite  300b
Monamour 2a3 amps various tubes
Sota Sapphire, Pete Riggle Woody Tonearm, Kiseki Purpleheart Cartridge
Rega P6 Ania Pro cartridge
Roon Nucleus
MHDT Labs Orchid DAC
Jager speakers


Offline galyons

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Reply #10 on: February 02, 2021, 01:05:03 PM
I have had good luck with Hifi-amplifiers.com for these tube.


Deb

Thanks Deb! Good to know!

Cheers,
Geary

VPI TNT IV/JMW 3D 12+Benz LP-S>  Eros + Auralic Aries + ANK Dac 4.1 >Eros TH+ Otari MX5050 IIIB2 > BeePre >Paramount 300B 7N7 > EV Sentry IV-A

Thorens TD124/Ortofon RMG-212/SPU >Seduction > Smash^Up> Paramour 45 MQ >K12's


Deke609

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Reply #11 on: February 02, 2021, 02:56:20 PM
Thanks Geary for the great tube review.

And thanks also for the following bit of insight:

Almost all products eventually wind up somewhere in the supply chain.  We had boards and equipment that we rejected, wind up being sold to others. Sometime that worked out for them, many times it did not.  Yes, most of the time they got the products for a cheaper price and the lower performance may still have been a good value for them.  But often we were contacted to get our experience with the products only to find, by lot and serial number, it was actually our rejected lots.

That makes a lot of sense. That may explain the many examples of fairly cheap, heavy duty aluminum enclosures with wonky drilling and weird labelling I've seen for sale. I don't mind wonky drilling if I can make it work, but rejects of more complex, electronic things, particularly things like tubes that cannot be fixed, seems super risky.  I had my eye on some largish and expensive solar panel systems ... now thinking I'll pass on buying from Ali, if I ever commit to purchasing

cheers, Derek



Offline debk

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Reply #12 on: February 02, 2021, 11:48:15 PM
Just be aware with Chinese New Year coming up soon, there can be delays with orders from China

Debra K

Eros 2Phono amp
BeePre2, Psvane ACME 300b
Kaiju, Linlai Elite  300b
Monamour 2a3 amps various tubes
Sota Sapphire, Pete Riggle Woody Tonearm, Kiseki Purpleheart Cartridge
Rega P6 Ania Pro cartridge
Roon Nucleus
MHDT Labs Orchid DAC
Jager speakers


Offline pboser

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Reply #13 on: February 03, 2021, 08:25:22 AM
Good observations about quality of suppliers, Geary.  Thanks.

Peter Boser


Offline aroide

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Reply #14 on: May 27, 2021, 12:37:05 PM
I rolled out the standard tubes in my BeePre early on with the Psvane grey bottle Ti II.  Very nice upgrade for a decent price.

Then I went crazy and got the Sophia Royal Princess where were so much better in every way.  Alas, after 4 years 1 developed a stress crack and I'm afraid to put in my my system in case some huge transient takes out my Maggies.

While my Rogue Atlas amp is back in the factory for an upgrade, I've got a Bryston 3BST amp in my system.  While not even close to the level of the Atlas, still nice.  But the Royal Princess are too detailed, almost etched with this amp.  Got ahold of a pair of Sophia Carbon tubes which match very well.

Interesting how much the BeePre exposes the character of the tube.  And how much overall system matching matters.  When the Atlas returns as an Atlas Magnum III, I'll see what my next tube choice will be...   Linlai or Acme likely.

Mac mini running Roon->
Mytek Brooklyn DAC+->
Darwin Truth RCA IC->
BeePre (BeeQuiet,  Mundorf Ag/Au/Oil, Sophia Royal Princess 300B)->
Audioquest Colorado->
Rogue Audio Atlas Magnum amp (Psvane small signal tubes, KT150s)->
Audioquest Gibraltar-speaker cables>
Magnepan 1.7 & REL T-5