I Can Now Say Power Regeneration Works Well

Grainger49 · 10458

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Offline Grainger49

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on: December 20, 2010, 05:56:54 AM
I have used a Power Wedge for about 18 years.  It conditions 4 "amp" outputs and supplies isolated power to 6 more source outlets.  The source outlets have no ground attached.  They "float" from ground, but for safety the amp is grounded which grounds all the components through the interconnects.  Each pair of source outlets have an isolating transformer.  When I bought the Power Wedge it made a pretty dramatic difference in the background noise in my system.  

However, I have been very interested in PS Audio power regenerators for a long time.  A week ago Saturday I got a flier from Music Direct and in it was a demo P300 unit for sale at $400.  I jumped on it.  It arrived Saturday night, a week later.

The frustrating and happy story:

When I opened the box, no power cord; I have some.  Powered it up and warmed up the system to do a comparison.  First the Power Wedge.  The system sounds like it always does.  Good, nice soundstage and imaging.

Then the P300.  When unplugged one of the Paramours . . .    it made a long squeaking sound through the speaker, just from being unplugged!  That is not normal, although unplugging them is also not normal.  When I got the FP and both Paramours plugged into the P300 only one channel played.  The tubes in the squeaky Paramour didn't light.  I stopped.  It was depressing.

Sunday morning I played hooky from Sunday School.  The odd thing is that there seemed to be no problem with the bad amp.  Still no heaters lighting though.  Thought it might be bad heaters, but they measured well in both tubes.  So I tightened the pins on the tube sockets and it is playing now.  So I did the comparison on CD with just the FP 2 and Paramours plugged into the P300.  (It will also power my Seduction and Turntable when I get all the cords pulled to it.)

To cut to the chase it stays!

Still on the Power Wedge istening to my favorites of Alison Krauss & Union Station, I got to New Favorite.  At the end of the song I decided to put in the P300 (plugged into the wall, not the Power Wedge or the dedicated outlet, just the room outlet).  I thought immediately that the images were more precisely defined, better fleshed out.  Listening further I realized the depth of the stage was greater.  I went back to the Power Wedge.  The images became more diffuse.  The tonal character of the Dobro (Jerry Douglas) was less obvious.  Song ended, back to the P300.  Yup!  Images better, depth better, resolution/detail of the Dobro better.  The violin (Alison Krauss) came out of the muck in the mix and I could hear AK playing clearly.  Funny, the bass is better and I am not powering the sub off of the P300, just the Paramours.  Obviously the clean sine wave helps the bass.  I'm not using any of the fancy wave forms, just pure sine wave.  Back to the Power Wedge and back to the P300.  It is conclusive.  It is definitely more seductive with the P300.  The system also seems more dynamic, that confuses me like more bass.

Maybe the blacks are blacker as PS Audio claims, but with the ringing in my left ear I don't hear black at any time.

The Seduction is plugged into the P300 now and it is beautiful!  I had to use a "cube tap" because the lower power port doesn't have power reliably.  Because my turntable runs slow I will put it into the P300 and adjust the frequency till I get a perfect speed.  I calculate I will have to feed it 60.9 Hz for the 1.5% speed correction.

Music Direct will make it good.  Probably a generic power cord and a power port.  Still a Hell of a deal!  I jumped at the right time.

Update on  MD, a discount on my next order and a Power Port to replace the one that has stripped screws on it (the hot and neutral screws will not tighten down).  It takes 14 screws to get to the Power Ports and three screws to remove each Power Port.  I just found that the reason the bottom Power Port was giving me problems is that the screws were stripped.  Power Port received.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 11:41:34 AM by Grainger49 »



Offline johnsonad

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Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 08:36:10 AM
For my 120v gear I use a PS Audio Premier Power Plant and love it for the same reasons.  I've been looking for a P300 for a while but can never seem to jump on one at the right time.  The older units are frequency and voltage adjustable which is nice when you use gear from difference countries.  Enjoy your new toy!

Aaron Johnson


Offline xcortes

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Reply #2 on: December 20, 2010, 09:20:48 AM
Good for you Grainger!

Xavier Cortes


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #3 on: December 20, 2010, 10:45:47 AM
For my 120v gear I use a PS Audio Premier Power Plant and love it for the same reasons.  I've been looking for a P300 for a while but can never seem to jump on one at the right time.  The older units are frequency and voltage adjustable which is nice when you use gear from difference countries.  Enjoy your new toy!

That is quite a lot of power, 1500W.  My FP 2, Seduction and Paramours draw 130W.

And thanks Xavier!  IIRC we discussed regeneration a while back.  Your system would need something much larger than mine.



Offline xcortes

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Reply #4 on: December 20, 2010, 12:22:28 PM
Yep, we did and I have the PPP since then.

Xavier Cortes


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #5 on: December 20, 2010, 05:43:35 PM
You can get 12vDC to 120vAC pure sine wave inverters for as little as $100, rated 150 watts or so. And 12-volt power supplies are widely available even cheaper. It seems like it would be an inexpensive alternative to the $2000 1500-watt audiophile "regenerators", if they are quiet enough. Has anyone tried, or heard of other audiophiles trying, the combination?

Paul Joppa


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #6 on: December 20, 2010, 11:53:17 PM
Being an official Audio Cheapskate I might have gone for that if I had thought of it.  I guess what would be most critical is the cleanliness of the inverter output and then the purity of the oscillator input to the inverter.

I think Paul needs the tongue-in-cheek smiley here.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 08:52:22 AM by Grainger49 »



Offline ssssly

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Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 01:33:10 AM
Thanks Paul now I have to build one.



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 05:45:02 AM
Just had this thought, with the regenerator I have been able to listen to CDs for the first time in 8 months.  They sound much better now.  I hear a clarity and smoothness that I never heard before.

Second thought, there ought to be an Audio Cheapskate Tweak thread for inexpensive ways of getting high end stuff.  That just sounds like Bottlehead to me.  PJ's regenerator is one.  I bought a stylus cleaner like Zerodust ($70) for $20; that's another.  I know the community has a lot of them.  Someone gave me the idea of using ball bearings and dished cabinet knobs to make fake Aurios.

Edit/addition:

I spoke with Scott McGowan at PS Audio yesterday.  The Power Plant Premier (1500 watts) is on sale many places at a $700 discount.  It is the only current production regenerator.  There have been regenerators from 300 watts to 2000 watts previously.  They are about to release a whole new line of regenerators, multiple models.  I had wondered why there was only one available for the last few years.

The "line" came out and it is only two, so far.  A Power Plant P5 (1000W) and Power Plant P10 (1250W).
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 11:52:10 PM by Grainger49 »



Offline dobbykins

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Reply #9 on: March 08, 2011, 10:49:47 AM
You can get 12vDC to 120vAC pure sine wave inverters for as little as $100, rated 150 watts or so. And 12-volt power supplies are widely available even cheaper. It seems like it would be an inexpensive alternative to the $2000 1500-watt audiophile "regenerators", if they are quiet enough. Has anyone tried, or heard of other audiophiles trying, the combination?

I'm very curious about building a simple power 'regenerator' in this manner for my turntable.  I'd like to ensure it's getting the least distorted, most stable sine wave possible (as it has an ac synchronous motor).  Has anyone tried something like this out, or does anyone have any idea whether a simple system with a 12 volt power supply, then 12 vDC to 120 vAC pure sine wave inverter will produce power that is 'better' than the mains?

Guy Hilburn


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #10 on: March 08, 2011, 11:04:57 AM
I'd be interested in hearing the outcome.  Do put a scope on the output to see that it is truly sine wave.  AC motors prefer a true sine wave from my experience.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 11:06:44 AM by Grainger49 »



Offline dbishopbliss

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Reply #11 on: March 08, 2011, 11:46:38 AM
You can get 12vDC to 120vAC pure sine wave inverters for as little as $100, rated 150 watts or so. And 12-volt power supplies are widely available even cheaper. It seems like it would be an inexpensive alternative to the $2000 1500-watt audiophile "regenerators", if they are quiet enough. Has anyone tried, or heard of other audiophiles trying, the combination?

I just found an inverter 12vDC to 115vAC rated 250 watts on a site for $25.

So if I pulled the power supply out the old computer sitting in my basement and used the 12V outputs, I could have a diy regenerator?  I may have to try this.  The price is right.

David B Bliss
Bottlehead: Foreplay I, Foreplay III, Paramour I w/Iron Upgrade, S.E.X. w/Iron Upgrade
Speakers: FE127E Metronomes, Jim Griffin Jordan/Aurum Cantus Monitors, ART Arrays
Other: Lightspeed Attenuator, "My Ref" Rev C Amps, Lampucera DAC


Offline JC

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Reply #12 on: March 08, 2011, 11:54:50 AM
It seems to me that you would be limited by how much current your computer supply provides at 12 Vdc.  If the inverter were to produce 250 Watts, I would think that you would need in excess of 20 Amps of 12 Vdc input to do it.  The inverter should have a fuse, I imagine.  That may give you some indication of how much input it wants.

Jim C.


Offline dbishopbliss

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Reply #13 on: March 08, 2011, 03:09:30 PM
I started thinking after I posted that the computer power supply probably wouldn't provide enough amps.  The inverter I found says that it is supposed to work with batteries (e.g., car battery).  Does a car battery provide 20 amps?  European batteries are rated for Cranking Amps, but I don't think that is the same.

David B Bliss
Bottlehead: Foreplay I, Foreplay III, Paramour I w/Iron Upgrade, S.E.X. w/Iron Upgrade
Speakers: FE127E Metronomes, Jim Griffin Jordan/Aurum Cantus Monitors, ART Arrays
Other: Lightspeed Attenuator, "My Ref" Rev C Amps, Lampucera DAC


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #14 on: March 08, 2011, 06:58:10 PM
Cheap (i.e. affordable) inverters will almost always have a poor (high-distortion) waveform. Not having experimented myself, I can't say how important that is to which kinds of gear.

For what it's worth, Bottlehead "richardl" recently tried a quality sine-wave oscillator into a power amp, then into a step-up transformer for a pretty clean 70-volt sinewave to drive his Linn turntable. He was startled at how much of an improvement it was, compared to the same 70 volts from a variac. When I heard it on Sunday, I was flabbergasted - truly amazing. Still no idea how important the low distortion was, vs. the frequency stability or reduced line noise or some other unknown parameter. But it does seem that experimentation will produce knowledge.

If it's low distortion that's important, it may be practical to implement some filters to reduce harmonics.

Paul Joppa