Output Capacitor Upgrading Questions

[JamieMcC]

Hi guys I have been having fun researching output capacitors for upgrading my Crack in the new year, being in the UK prices here seem to be higher than those over in the US and there is not so much choice readily available  So narrowing it down the has been difficult but these two sound attractive and are within my budget. 

The  Obbligato 100uf 400v +-10%           45mmx90mm at

[JamieMcC]

Ok I do have some more info on the JB JFX which I decided in the end to purchase. Fingers crossed they will be a worthwhile upgrade we shall see.

Following on from my earlier post, the JFX-Premium metallized polypropylene film capacitor intrigued me and there is something about taking the path less travelled that I find attractive compared to running with the more obvious tried and tested choices for upgrading the caps in the Crack.

After some considerable time spent online getting nowhere I ended up contacting JB Capacitors direct in China.

It turns out that they have a 30 year history of capacitor manufacturing with modern machinery and production methods achieving high consistent quality to meet many international accreditations.

On to the JFX-Premium metallized polypropylene film capacitor.

These are built to high specification and JB state they regard their JFX product  as being of equivalent quality as the more well know  brands such as  Jensen, Auricap, Erse, Mundorf,  Auricap, Erse, Mallory, Jantzen Audio.  Which is not a claim to make lightly I would think.

A premium grade of

[JamieMcC]

Its been both fun and confidence building adding a couple of mods to my BHC over the last week. Earlier today it was the turn of the JB Capacitors, JFX 100uf 250v premium film caps. 

I still need to add some insulating tape to the cap leads and connecting wires, I will pick some up on Monday I'm a bit to worried about getting my hot air gun to close to use heat shrink sleeving.

Also on the first pic you can see how the Valab attenuator only just fits inside the case. I had glued some corner braces to the case and needed to remove one of these for the Valab to fit.

(https://www.head-fi.org/image/id/5542979/width/900/height/900/flags/LL)

(https://www.head-fi.org/image/id/5542980/width/900/height/900/flags/LL)

[ryhaigh]

Is this just in my head?  I need some input.

Love my crack w. speedball.

I put in 2 replacement output caps: Mundorf MKV film caps (250V 100uF) and one bypass cap: Mundorf Supreme 2.2uF during my initial crack / speedball build.

My impression when new was that with the crack+speedball+caps+ HD650s I was hearing unnoticed detail and with clearer placement of the instruments, almost like focusing an image after it's initially hazy, to compare it by visual analogy.  Additionally, I could hear various aspects of the music much better, percussion in particular, subtle breaths of singers, low level distortion, reverb and other more subtle voicing effects on instruments, and woodwind instruments had an airy quality that was missing before. 

All in all, pretty awesome.

I am now about 70 hours into breaking in my kit.  75% of those are running it at reasonable volume for 8 hrs or so, the rest from actual listening.  I am doing this because it is my understanding that caps take about 200hrs to break in. I know this is debatable, but I figured it couldn't hurt on the off chance.

What I think I am experiencing now is that the sound seems less detailed than it initially did. Like there's a thin film over the music. It's less crisp, like the edges are rounded off the sound or something. (Sorry really failing with descriptors here) 

Is this in my head because I am now used to the detail inherent in my setup, or is it possible that my caps are evolving into a less detailed sound?

Thanks in advance,

Ryan

[Paul Joppa]

In my limited experience, caps do often go through a phase where they sound worse than they did at first, before they fully are broken in. I've never seen it take that long; usually it's more like at the 20-hour point. But since the mechanism is mysterious, I can't discount this possibility.

As the alternate theory, the initial unpleasantness often includes an "edge" to the sound which can be mistaken for greater detail. When they break in fully, the edge goes away leaving behind greater resolution and subtlety - a smoother sound. It's been most audible with tape sources, I believe because they deliver the highest potential resolution.

Just two theories as alternates to the (this cap just sucks" theory.

You might try taking the bypass off - sometimes they do more harm than good, and predicting when seems impossible.

[JamieMcC]

I noticed improvements along the same lines with mine and a slight looseness in bass with a kind of funny buzz to occasional bass notes on some jazz recordings I thought my headphones might even be damaged this all tightened up after about 60hrs and the buzz became more defined and developed into a resonance sound from a plucked double bass string wow!

I have been very pleased with the JFX film caps and the improvements they given. 

[free]

So if you upgrade to bigger caps than the default ones, what advantage does it make?

[mcandmar]

When i first installed the .1uf Russian teflons into my S.E.X. amp i noticed a distinctly unpleasant resonance in the range of cymbols and other percussion instruments making them sound harsh and distorted.  It did go went away with some use.

Interestingly with the 1.5uf Mundorfs i never noticed any

[Grainger49]

Free,

The reason to upgrade is getting a better sounding cap in there.  The stock electrolytic has a lot of capacitance for its size.  The film replacements are a whole 'nother animal.  They are larger for the capacitance value but much better sounding.

Try breaking them in before you install them.  Put them across an amplifier's speaker leads at a normal volume level for a week.  This will put a greater current through them than when used as a coupling cap. 

[mcandmar]

When i first installed the .1uf Russian teflons into my S.E.X. amp i noticed a distinctly unpleasant resonance in the range of cymbals and other percussion instruments making them sound harsh and distorted.  It took about a week of daily use for that to go away, and they were pre burnt for a week as per Graingers advice.

Interestingly with the 1.5uf Mundorf output caps i never noticed any change from them, they were instantly clearer and more transparent and haven't seem to have change over time.

I do find it odd this whole burn in phenomenon, i've even seen similar changes from amps after replacing all the resistors, or anything freshly built never sounds right until you leave it running for some hours.  I'm not quite ready to believe cables need burnt in, but there is something mysterious going on i dont understand.

[free]

Grainger49,
so because of the smaller energy density they are bigger, ah ok. You say "The film replacements are a whole 'nother animal." do you mean in terms of sound? There must be reviews using these caps, can you point me to these reviews?

[NightFlight]

Free,

[...]

Try breaking them in before you install them.  Put them across an amplifier's speaker leads at a normal volume level for a week.  This will put a greater current through them than when used as a coupling cap.

+4/8ohms resistance in series or just the cap you think?

[Paul Joppa]

If the amp has feedback, the series resistor is probably prudent.

[JamieMcC]

Ok this has been a lot harder to put down than I first thought but here some impressions on the JFX film capacitors I fitted to my BHCrack.

 BHCrack+Speedball+Valab+JFX film capacitors

 Tubes Tung-Sol 5998 & Mullard 12au7

 Headphones Beyerdynamic Tesla T1

 The instantly most noticeable change to the sound has been clarity and it is really hard to put this into words just how much this has improved it is also a bit mind bending to think it wasn’t so clear before.

 A visualization might be looking out over a scene on a grey day and seeing an area that is bathed in a shaft of sunlight which makes everything sharper, colours pop out and shapes are more clearly defined and focused. Everything within the area of sunlight is just more vivid.

 The perception of sound stage with the T1’s is not much wider than before but it now has greater depth and a smoother and more seamless feel to it.  With the improved clarity I can look deeper into the soundstage and recording to focus on individual instruments within, this placement depth and resolution is very noticeable on live recordings.


 For lack of better words music just flows better, it rises and falls as needed and washes over you with an effortlessness to the dynamics.

 This is really hard to describe but its changed how the T1’s connect me with the music there is no more sense of viewing from say three rows back.

 It feels much more like 'being there' I can be further back viewing a musical in a theatre listening to say Les Miserables taking in the whole scene or next find myself sitting across the table from Melody Gardot or Diana Krall, who are now singing just for me.  On another track I am right on stage right in the middle of the mix with musicians to the left and right and behind enveloped in sound (this really was a first for me and an amazing “Holy Cow I am on the stage” moment, thank you Florence).
 
 This all makes for an increased feel to the atmosphere and venue on live recordings as the music flows out and fills the venues and gives a sense of air as a beautiful solo vocal floats up high into the vaults of a cathedrals ceiling, it’s just beautiful to hear.


 Pretty much all instruments sound better, the distortion of an electric guitar, brushes on drums, the little metal cymbals of a tambourine as they vibrate on both sides when shaken these little details keep coming through, plucks on strings the woodiness of instruments the bounce back on kick-drum or a sense of hollowness to an acoustic guitar or the density of the wood castanets are made of. The transparency of those subtle nuances of tones and textures draw you into the music. To many times just one more track turns into one more album way into the small hours of the morning.

 The capacitors sonics have definitely improved as they burned in. I had a strange intermittent buzz noise in the lower frequencies on some jazz tracks I couldn’t quiet put my finger on what it was. It was just not right I wondered if my headphones had started to develop a problem with reproduction of the frequency. After about 60hrs this buzz has become more defined and developed into a thrum resonance sound from a plucked double bass string.

 The T1’s are a fantastic headphones in many respects but I was very pleased to hear after about 100hrs a welcome hint of soulfulness develop in the midrange and just a little more warmth, body and loveliness to vocals which I think they are the better for.

 The T1’s have scaled well with the addition of the film caps and I continue to be amazed by the reproduction of music I listen to and those out of headphone experiences that catch you by surprise have become much more frequent. I have been very pleased with the results of fitting the film caps.

 I hope some of this makes a little sense.

[Grainger49]

Grainger49,
    .  .  .    You say "The film replacements are a whole 'nother animal." do you mean in terms of sound?

Good film caps are much different than electrolytics.  To start with, most electrolytics have a polarity.  Film caps don't.

They are made with very different technologies.  For instance you can get a good 3300uF 180V for ~$8, you can get a nice film 1.0uF 200V (film are usually higher voltages) for $14.50.  That is 1/3300 smaller capacitance.

See, a whole 'nother animal.