No glow for me with the OD3

bainjs · 9099

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Offline bainjs

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on: October 07, 2011, 12:08:26 AM
In discussing the great build with Laudanum of his FP3 in the Gallery, I discovered that the OD3 should be lighting up.  I built my FP3 a few months ago and it sounds great, but alas, no glow from the OD3. It's the RCA supplied with the kit.

We can all use a little more glow in our Bottlehead lives, so anyone have thoughts on this?  Paul Joppa gave me some things to check, but I suspect they will be ok.  Grainger and I went through the voltages extensively when I built the kit, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Thanks for any suggestions, I need the glow....

Joel

Joel Bain

Offline pro_crip

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Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 01:44:51 AM
Have you tried a different brand of OD3? Some of them had shields to block the glow.

Rich

Richard J Feldman
Professional Gimp,connoisseur of Bourbon and Vinyl, metalhead

Crack, Extended FPIII, Eros, Paramount 300B's (in the midst of construction)

Tune down, smoke up

Offline bainjs

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Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 04:19:44 AM
A NOS Westinghouse is on order.  I'll try that and see if "I can see the light."

Thanks

Joel Bain

Offline bainjs

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Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 04:38:21 AM
Hytron also coming...

Joel Bain

Offline Laudanum

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Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 05:11:06 AM
Hi Joel.  You can see the glow with the Hytron, but the top spacer/plate doesnt have the two slits in it like the RCA.  So, the RCA internal structure allows more of the glow to be visible.  Anyway, atleast you will confirm that it is the tube.  The Westinghouse could be a re-label so it may be good for showing the glow, or not so good. 
 I picked up an RCA from ebay a couple days ago for 3 bucks BIN since I know they glow pretty nicely.  I think there was another RCA there for 3 or 4 bucks.
Grab it if it's still available, then you'll have one that you know is a pretty good glower and there isnt much risk for a few bucks.

Desmond G.

Offline bainjs

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Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 07:00:35 AM
The confusing thing is my original is a RCA.   I'll check the eBay listing.  One more can't hurt! 

Joel Bain

Offline Laudanum

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Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 08:00:02 AM
Quote from: bainjs on October 07, 2011, 07:00:35 AM
The confusing thing is my original is a RCA.   I'll check the eBay listing.  One more can't hurt! 

Yes, but is it a weak or bad tube?   Mine is an RCA as well.

Desmond G.

Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 10:15:10 AM
I had suggested the voltages because if the tube is regulating then it is glowing on the inside and the amp will be performing properly. If it's not regulating, then the voltages will help determine why.

Paul Joppa

Offline Laudanum

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Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 11:20:06 AM
Ooops, sorry Paul.  I had assumed that the voltage checks that you suggested had been done.

Desmond G.

Offline porcupunctis

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Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 01:43:26 PM
The one in my profile picture is a Hytron and is labeled JAN CHY 150-30.

The plates have a cover on top but it is translucent and when the tube is on you can't hardly tell it is there at all.

Randall Massey
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Lifetime audio-electronics junkie

Offline Laudanum

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Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 02:51:56 PM
I have two of the same Hytrons.  I didnt notice the translucent top before but you're right, you can see the glow through it.  My RCA has a space around the bottom of the shield as well as two slits on the top and it does emit a bit more glow overall because of it.  But the Hytrons are better than I first thought they were.  I must not have looked down at the top.  Cool.

Desmond G.

Offline bainjs

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Reply #11 on: October 09, 2011, 11:44:17 AM
Per Paul's suggestion, here are the voltages I measured on the OD3 tube.  R21 - 206vdc, R25 - 407vdc,  R3 - 407VDC, R7 - 406vdc, I could not get a stable voltage on R5.  It jumped around and would finally show .005vdc.  I have the RCA tube with slits in the top, however, there is no glow and the tube does not get the least bit warm. 

If there is a problem somewhere, why does it sound ok?  Very confusing.  I hope to have some additional OD3s to try soon. 

Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Joel

Joel Bain

Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #12 on: October 09, 2011, 02:07:40 PM
OK, good info. You tube is not glowing, nor is it operating - if it were, then the voltage at T21 would be 150v, +/- 5v at most.

The high voltage supply comes in at R7. Inside the 0D3, that is connected to R3, which is then wired to terminal 25. Then it goes through the big resistors to terminal 21. Since you have voltage at terminals 21 and 25, this part must be working, and terminal 21 is supplying power to the preamp circuitry. (If the regulator tube were working, it would shunt some of the current to ground, reducing the terminal 21 voltage to 150 volts.)

Terminal 21 is connected to R5, the positive input of the regulator tube. R2 goes to ground at 24U and 28L. Check these connections and solder joints, especially terminal 28 which has a lot of wires. That terminal requires more heat to get all the wires connected properly, so it's easy to get a poor joint there. You should be able to measure the tube voltages of 0 and 150 at the ends of the 0.1uF bypass capacitor, R2 and R5

Paul Joppa

Offline bainjs

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Reply #13 on: October 09, 2011, 03:54:06 PM
Could it be the tube itself?  I've checked all the connections and reheated the tabs.  I checked the continuity on the wires to make sure the grounds and the connections are ok  The voltages are still not correct.

Why would the preamp work (quite well to my ears), if the OD3 is not operating?

Thanks


Joel Bain

Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #14 on: October 09, 2011, 05:06:16 PM
Yes, it could be the tube. Based on your numbers, and the fact that you have worked on the solder joints and inspected the construction to confirm all is as it should be, that is the most likely issue. Time to give Eileen a call or an email and ask for a replacement 0D3!

Some details: You measured 407 and 206v at the two ends of the big resistors, which in parallel add up to 10K ohms. That calculates to 20.1mA being drawn by the preamp circuitry, which is about right. The circuit is powered, so it operates. It does not have the stability and drive that it would if the supply were regulated, but it still works.

When it is running right, the voltage at T21 would be 150v, as I said. If T25 is unchanged, that would indicate 25.7mA current through the 10K resistor. The amplifier circuit will draw a bit less current when its supply is reduced - maybe 16mA? - so the regulator tube will conduct maybe 9 or 10mA and should glow quite nicely.

Since this was a problem from the start,

Paul Joppa

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