SEX amp 300B conversion - B-Glow

HAK · 20551

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Offline HAK

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on: February 08, 2012, 01:52:11 PM
after I got my original sex kit a long time ago, I planned to build the 300B conversion described in Valve vol4 #11 by Paul Joppa. I got most of the parts but did not get to it. After several moves I have rediscovered the 204's, 300B, nice coupling cap, etc. and want to finally finish the job.
Has that original circuit been developed into the B-Glow? Is there a schedmatic for that I could take a look at? Any other changes or ideas for that design? Any info would be very much appriciated.
Regards,
Harald



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 03:02:12 PM
First question is, which power transformer do you have? I can recall three - the oldest had a copper flux band, then the deYoung with what seems like thousands of multicolored wires, and finally the Magnequest PGP-8 with solder tabs. They all had slightly different ratings, which would affect the best use.

Second question, are your chassis plates in good condition and do you plan to keep them?

I'll go dig out the article for another look, and see what can be done today. I can say that the original was configured so that it could use either 6SN7s or 6SL7s, but everyone agreed that the 6SN7 sounded better. Tell me where you are with the questions above, and I'll be glad to make some recommendations. That amp served me well for many years and many many experiments!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 05:49:08 PM by Paul Joppa »

Paul Joppa


Offline HAK

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Reply #2 on: February 08, 2012, 04:56:08 PM
Paul,
thank you for your reply. I will send you more details tomorrow, too late now in the East !



Offline HAK

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Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 08:27:43 AM
the idea for this amp in not to convert a sex kit but to build an amp from scratch based on this circuit with the 204. And yes, I have the first SEX kits with the copper band tranny. But they stay as they are, they are what started me after all ...

My idea is to keep this as "classic" and "simple" as possible and use tube rectifiers.  I am about to start with bread-boarding, I do not know yet what B+ will come out of the parts I have but it should be under 400V DC. (800V*0.45 FWB) minus 20-30V loss at the rectifier, minus 6V loss at the choke, (that would be around 340V) but then that is for 115V primary and my line AC is more like 123-125; so who knows what the B+ will end up at ...)
If there is a difference to the 410V from your design I will have to recalculate the bias resistor at the cathode of the 300B, correct? How much difference is OK?
What about the driver stage B+? Can it tolerate lower B+? How much?

Here is what is on the workbench already:
Hammond Power Transformer with 800 CT / 200+ mA secondary, 5V and 6.3 V secondary's
5U4GB rectifiers (I have two RCA's from a MC60)
I also have two 83 mercury rectifiers but I have not seen them used a lot and I am not sure if that is a good idea
"classic  pi-filter after the rectifier (10-25uf  / 10H-200mA / 47-94 uF) (I have all that)
Bleeder resistor to stabilize the power supply (10-20% of the 60 or so mA DC current)
Use two bleeder resistors to get the bias for the heaters of the 6SL7's or use your 6.3 to 5 V step down version with automatic driver filament bias (I have enough Amps at the 6.3 secondary to run both tubes)
Maybe another 5H/120mA choke and 100 uF for the driver stage B+ (I have all that, but I am not sure its needed to reduce hum; I'd rather skip it)
All AC filaments
Have two nice aluminum cast enclosures that I have scraped out of the dumpster at our company - used to be medical device power supplies
I also still have the AN copper film 0.22uF and Black Gate cathode bypass caps - all paid for 12 years ago ....
Have Sovtek 300B's and 6SN7 tubes. Hope they will work out OK. Maybe an upgrade later - so many choices now. The Sovtek are original WE specs so this should work I hope without changing the 300 bias, etc.
This amp will power a single Lowther PM6A each, so there is no need for the last Watt of power. I would be very happy to sacrifice power for lower distortion or more bandwidth if there are ways to do so.
Looking forward to your comments Paul !!!



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 03:45:10 PM
OK, cool - this is more of a clean-sheet-of-paper design then. It will be fun!

First off, the power transformer. Is it a Hammond 200 series, or 300 series? Reason I ask is, the 200 series is not very tolerant of excess input voltage and you may want to find a way to get that down.

Do you have two power transformers, or are you planning to use one and make a stereo amp?

So, next I dug out the article. Man, 15 years was a long time ago! As it turns out, I have made substantial changes in optimizing the operating voltages and currents. Fifteen years ago, I just worked off the WE table; since then I have derived a model that also predicts the distortion. I now prefer to use just the points with lowest distortion, even though they do not generate the most possible power. So here's today's best approach:

The -204 is a great-sounding transformer but probably the only one of Mike's products that is not conservatively rated for plate current - 60mA is the maximum you'd want to use. By my current rule of thumb that means about 275v plate to cathode, and about 55v bias. The '204 will drop 8 volts (it's 135 ohms DC on the primary) so a B+ of 338 volts is about right.

A 400-0-400v transformer, lightly loaded with a pi filter can easily make 500vDC. That's way too much! But a choke-input filter would be just about dead-nuts on. So that's what will be my recommended starting point.

Personally, I'd stay away from mercury-vapor rectifiers, purely for safety reasons. Back in the day, they even made a tube called the 83-V which was a non-mercury (V for vacuum) version; the "modern" version is called 5V4. There's a certain enthusiasm for the 83 on the TubeDIY forum at AA, but I just don't think it's sensible for us amateurs.

Paul Joppa


Offline pboser

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Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 07:53:10 AM
That issue is not in the VALVE archives.  If Doc OK's it, can someone post a copy of the article?
Thanks,
Pete

Peter Boser


Offline HAK

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Reply #6 on: February 11, 2012, 05:35:04 AM
Good point with the 83's - it's too risky. Watch for them on ebay ...

The plan is to build two mono amps.

Turns out I discovered a pair of Hammond 372JX with 600CT-250mA in another box in the basement. Great what one can find after 3 moves! I've also figured out the PSU designer SW and using the 300V with my 5U4GB's and the 10H-200mA choke plus a 47u left and right I get to 350V with 26mV AC hum.  Putting a 5H-150mA choke in front brings the B+ down to 238V and 10mV AC hum.  That should work then. I will see if I can get this together over the next days and see if reality agrees.

About posting the missing issue - of course I have it and can scan it but I am not sure how to go about posting it.

 



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 06:17:07 AM
@pete - ping me [paul at bottlehead dot com] and I'll email the Word file version.

Paul Joppa


Offline HAK

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Reply #8 on: February 12, 2012, 06:13:07 AM
I finished the set-up yesterday: 47-10-47 filter and 300V input I get over 390V even at 60 mA load - still to much. But I can go to a much smaller first cap (2-4 uF according to the PSU designer SW) and get the voltage to 350V as required. That's then almost a choke filter.
The 6.3 is also way too high at 6.9V, so I have to bring that down too. I will use a resistor set-up as you did in the original, getting the 5V also and thus setting the filaments of the driver at 55V bias.
So far, so good.



Offline pboser

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Reply #9 on: February 12, 2012, 01:59:38 PM
@Paul,
Thank you for the offer.  It turns out I looked through my disorganized file of VALVE issues and found that one!  Sorry for the complaining!
Now, to make up for it, I'm willing to scan my copy and send it to Doc for inclusion in the VALVE archive.
There's great stuff in those old VALVEs! (pun intended)
Pete

Peter Boser


Offline 2wo

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Reply #10 on: February 12, 2012, 03:35:05 PM
I don

John S.


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 05:52:15 PM

Paul Joppa


Offline 2wo

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Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 06:01:55 PM
Missed the 60ma limit, still looking for the Valve CD...John

John S.


Offline AstromanoftheFuture

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Reply #13 on: April 24, 2021, 06:01:14 AM
I know this thread is ancient, but I’m wondering about this particular 300b design...

I started a new thread here:

https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=13304.0



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #14 on: April 24, 2021, 06:39:20 AM
I know this thread is ancient, but I’m wondering about this particular 300b design...

I started a new thread here:

https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=13304.0
I looked at that neww thread, and I don't see what you are asking - is there a specific question? Are you asking about the SEX amp conversion article?

Paul Joppa