Balanced Power

[caffeinator]

It doesn't sound like there's a conflict between BPT's statements and what Grainger is saying.  BPT says the rated current capability of the is 10A and that each secondary winding is also rated at 10A.  That's not the same, though, as rating the VA capacity of the primary and secondary (or secondaries), is it?  Those do have to be the same.

With respect to VA, I'm pondering this myself.  The transformer I have for my balanced power project is rated at 1,500 VA.  It has two secondaries, though each will be used to form half the outbound balanced power.  1,500 VA in; 1,500 VA out, right?  So, at a 120VAC nom. output, I could have up to about 12A continuous, though that seems highly unlikely - unless I wanted really low powerline noise for a space heater or something.

But, what kind of power consumption, or current consumption, and turn-on surge does one figure for, say, a Paramount (or a Pair o' 'mounts), a FPIII, a seduction, etc. ?

[Grainger49]

Greg,

That seems to be different to your post above.  In the post where you say the primary is rated at 10A (probably at 120V) that gives a VA rating of 1200VA.  The secondary having more than one winding rated at 10A (again, probably at 120V) gives a VA rating of each secondary winding of 1200VA.  So the VA product of the primary, 1200VA, is not equal to the total of multiple secondary windings all rated at 1200 VA. 

What am I missing here?

[4krow]

Heh heh, let me try again. Normally, you would expect that the total secondary draw would equal the capability of the primary winding rating. At least, that would be my presumtion. The owner of the company(just can't remember his name now) and I were discussing this, and felt that since he likes build products as robust as possible, he made a special order in which EACH secondary winding was capable of full load(there are five secondary windings), and that the primary winding was capable of only ONE of the secondary windings rating. However, he carefully rated the entire product by the capability of the PRIMARY winding, so as not to imply that the customer could hook up equipment in excess of the primary winding in the first place. Perhaps the secondaries are overbuilt only to allow a little inductive reserve. Somewhat over my head, but that is what I know about it. Hope I didn't somehow contradict myself again.

[earwaxxer]

After years of using ALL kinds of power filters, etc, I couldn't be a bigger fan of balanced power. Even though I hold the PS Audio products in high regard, I personally chose a product from BPT. Not only does have the advantage of balanced power, but the transformer has five separate secondary wings with Faraday shields between each, and other forms of isolation as well. This amounts to dedicated power for every outlet. No doubt you can take this on yourself and save money, but I went the quicker route and bout the item used. I wouldn't dream of going back.

Hey Greg - any comparisons between the BPT and PS Audio stuff? I have been curious about this topic for some time. What BPT do you have/recommend?

thanks - Eric

[Paul Birkeland]

But, what kind of power consumption, or current consumption, and turn-on surge does one figure for, say, a Paramount (or a Pair o' 'mounts), a FPIII, a seduction, etc. ?

Don't worry about turn on surge and your transformer. The current ratings exist considering several factors, and a brief turn on surge is not going to build up much heat. This also presumes that you turn everything on at exactly the same time, which is unlikely.

[4krow]

Eric,

  I am divided on this issue. PS Audio products have versatility that I like. For example, the PS regenerators(older ones anyway) can give several different wave forms for the AC output. This can be really cool, depending on how your equipment responds to it. On the plus side, many times equipment responds very favorably with lower noise floor and greater detail, for example. I really like that. But some of my equipment transformers would hum given one or two of the choices that I selected. One Krell cd player actually failed, new, right out of the box! Never did know why. It was replaced with an exact model(and NOT used with the PS Audio P300, and did well). Hmmm. Now, for some reason, there was trouble with my PS Audio premier model here. I do actually blame some kind of radio transmission signaling device nearby, but the unit would turn on for no reason. After sending it back to the factory for a complete checkup, it was returned, and the same problem persisted. I do not think that was the fault of the unit. Having said that, I decided to go another way. That's when I tried other quality conditioners with various results, and just to be done with it. I saw BPT, and decided to take my business there. You see, the balanced power devices offer almost as much in lower noise floor just by design(cancellation due to out of phase or common mode rejection). In addition, they don't the many delicate circuits of the PS Audio units. Since the BPT units added additional passive circuitry, I gave them a try. All in all, there has been improvement and they are immune to airborne troubles from the PS units. As to what model you should choose, it does depend on the needs of your system. Take a look at the site, and then confer with the owner if you need to. He is quite willing to help.

[earwaxxer]

wow - thanks Greg - lots of good info. 

[Paul Joppa]

Greg,

That seems to be different to your post above.  In the post where you say the primary is rated at 10A (probably at 120V) that gives a VA rating of 1200VA.  The secondary having more than one winding rated at 10A (again, probably at 120V) gives a VA rating of each secondary winding of 1200VA.  So the VA product of the primary, 1200VA, is not equal to the total of multiple secondary windings all rated at 1200 VA. 

What am I missing here?

I assume it's so you can connect the biggest draw (probably your big Krell class A monster, right?) to whichever secondary is convenient. The others just loaf along.

[4krow]

Actually, the Krell was a cd player, and I have moved on since to an SACD player made by Yamaha. That was a step in the right direction. I must say however, that after reading your post Paul, it reminded me of a time when I used a PS Audio unit to supply voltage to a Mark Levinson Amp! I'm not kidding. I would first fire up the amp with regular(household current from another household socket), and then when the capacitors were charged, I used the PS300. You may admire my bravery, but dam my judgement. It worked, and it was fun to experiment, but ultimately, the ML did quite fine with 'regular'. Anyway, you are correct in assuming that the secondaries can loaf for the most , allowing maybe one of them to pull the weight by running some bigger draw.

[earwaxxer]

It seems like its more common for todays big amps have soft start circuits (my Emotiva). In the old days it was a matter of pride to flick your power amp on and have the lights dim!

[Grainger49]

Greg,

So are you saying that the secondaries are wound with wire that can deliver 10A on each winding?  But you can't produce more than 10A on the total secondary.  It is energy, it can't be multiplied.   So if one secondary is drawing 10A, the others can't be used without the primary drawing more than 10A from the wall.

[4krow]

Grainger, What I am saying is that the secondaries are RATED for 10amps RMS, each. That doesn't mean that you can draw more than a TOTAL of 10 amps, FROM ALL 5 secondaries at once. This is because the primary winding is limited to 10amps RMS as well. It is an unusual design, but I really like the overbuilt design. Because of the cost of this transformer, Chris Hoff, owner of BPT, doesn't offer this model any longer....DAM!TT Well, keep an eye out for one used. It is the model 10.5 ULTRA
 

[Paul Birkeland]

So are you saying that the secondaries are wound with wire that can deliver 10A on each winding? 

I think it's just a transformer where all the windings are identical, so in practice you could apply your 120V line voltage to one winding and draw 10 amps through one of the other windings on its own.

[4krow]

exactly

[Grainger49]

[quote author=4krow link=topic=3443.msg30386#msg30386 date=1351471887   .  .  .   That doesn't mean that you can draw more than a TOTAL of 10 amps, FROM ALL 5 secondaries at once. This is because the primary winding is limited to 10amps RMS as well.  .  .  .    [/quote]

That is what I was trying to say in my last post.