Seduction with Stereomour?

[Downhome Upstate]

Just a gleam in my eye, but anyway . . .  Any thoughts on whether the Seduction is a good match with the Stereomour?  Can't afford the Eros any time soon.

Best,

Mike

[Paul Joppa]

I think it's an excellent match, as long as you have a cartridge with reasonable output. Eros has more gain, so it works better with carts under 3-4mV. Seduction is good down to 2.5mV but with Stereomour or S.E.X. and no separate preamp, it depends more on having high speaker sensitivity.

[Downhome Upstate]

Thanks, Paul. I'll be using the Stereomour to drive a pair of Orcas.

I'm looking at an old Technics SL-1200 Mk2 this weekend (say a prayer that for $250 the TT is in decent shape), and already have a Jelco 750 arm and armboard for the Techie. I got the arm a while ago because it works well with the Denon DL-103. The cart outputs 0.3 mv.

I'll need a SUT, and I was thinking of the K&K Basic step-up kit with Lundahl xformers ("[t]he Basic unit can be set up for 14, 20 or 26 dB of gain when equipped with LL9226 transformers. Alternatively, the Basic kit can also be supplied with LL1678 transformers for 18, 24, or 30dB of gain . . ."].

What do you think? With the C4S upgrade? Without? Neither?

Thanks again,

Mike 

[Grainger49]

Mike,

You will certainly need the SUT with the DL 103.  I was using one about 9 months ago into my Seduction and it is a dynamic combination.  I have the old Denon SUT that came with the cartridge when I bought it in 1986.

The C⁴S upgrade will give you a bit more gain, 6dB IIRC.  It will also lower noise which also makes it sound louder. 

[Downhome Upstate]

Hey Grainger,

Were you feeding your Paramour(s) with the Seduction/DL-103/Denon SUT?

How does the front end of the Stereomour compare with the front end of the Paramour?

Best,

Mike 

[Grainger49]

It went, Seduction>FP 2>Creek OBH 10 (remote volume control)>Paramours>Triangle Zerius speakers (I don't know what the plural of Zerius is so I avoid it).

The driver stages are much the same.  The Stereomour has a volume pot replacing the Paramour fixed input load resistor.  It also has an input selector switch in front of the volume pot and three pair of input RCA jacks.  The Paramours are power amps, one input.

Depending on when you bought a Paramour you might not have had the C⁴S on the driver tube.  Mine does, so do the Stereomours.

[Downhome Upstate]

Oh, okay.    Wrong question, then.

Reformulating:  How do the electrical characteristics/sound of the Stereomour front end compare with the electrical characteristics/sound of the FP2, vis-a-vis an input from a DL-103/entry-level Denon SUT?

[Grainger49]

I'm not completely sure what you are asking (again, it seems).  The Stereomour has the same number of amplifying stages as the Paramour.  The FP 2 adds two more stages. 

This flies in the face of the "less is more" philosophy of Bottlehead.  But there are reasons that a preamp helps.  It has a high input impedance and a low output impedance. 

Many Bottleheads have found that with an active amplification stage between the Seduction (or any source) and the power amp there is more "drive" in the music.  It is more dynamic and detailed. 

[Downhome Upstate]

Right. Sorry for being obtuse, big guy. I'm just trying to understand if a DL-103/SUT into the FP2/Paramour would 'sound' like the same into a Seduction/Stereomour, or if the sound would be different because of differences in components or circuits.

Best,

Mike 

[saildoctor]

The Seduction power tranny is built so as to radiate a much smaller electrical field - so it has that going for it.  Ah, I think you would still need to add a device providing RIAA correction with a SUT/FP2?

The Seduction can be modded just as easily as the FP2 btw.  I installed a gas voltage reg tube into mine. (Shameless mod promotion!) 

http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,1964.0.html

[Paul Birkeland]

I'm just trying to understand if a DL-103/SUT into the FP2/Paramour would 'sound' like the same into a Seduction/Stereomour, or if the sound would be different because of differences in components or circuits.

You'd have to run the DL-103/SUT combo into a Seduction in either case.  If you compared the Seduction -> FP-III -> Paramours (monoblocks) to Seduction -> Steremour, I'd expect the Seduction and Steremour combination to sound much better.  This has almost nothing to do with the removal of the preamp, but rather the drastic improvement in plate chokes and output transformers between the Paramour monoblocks and the Stereomour.

-PB

[Downhome Upstate]

Thanks, Paul. I didn't realize that the Foreplay was a line stage. Any suggestion on which of the Lundahl iron choices in the K&K step-up kit would best feed the Seduction?

[Downhome Upstate]

Kevin at K & K advises to use the LL9226, which is the 1:10 default choice in their Basic step-up kit for MC cartridges outputting 0.3 to 1 mV.  I'm guessing that this will make the Seduction happy.
 

[Paul Birkeland]

1:10 will get you to 3.0mV, which isn't bad, 1:20 may work better, Kevin should have a transformer that does both.

[Downhome Upstate]

Thanks, CB/PB.

I forgot (read: just didn't bother to think) that the center of the Seduction's sensitivity design point was 5 mV.  Just how far over 5 can you go without overdriving the thing?

Follow-up: To C4S or not to C4S?  If using a 1:18 or 1:20 step up, should I avoid the 4 dB gain from the C4S? Does the setup work better with a higher quality 1:14  step-up and the C4S?  Is this where I start mumbling to myself?   

This is where someone should say: hey buddy. This is a hobby, remember? Try one, and if you don't like it, try something else.

Mike