Speaker imaging

[ssssly]

Anybody have any cool tricks for opening up the image on one side of the sound stage?

Left hand side images properly.

Right hand side is stuck right on the speaker.

Have tried various speaker positions. Changes things about the overall image but not the fact that it stops at the right hand speaker.

The left hand side of the room is a a couple feet longer.

Is a half wall that goes into the kitchen on the right.

A couch and CD racks on the left. 

Gonna try breaking up the kitchen half wall and see how that does.

Any other voodoo or suggestions?

[earwaxxer]

I would try some less conventional positions like moving the right speaker closer to the listening position than the left or visa versa. Also, if the speaker is too close or too far from a wall that can lead to that kind of problem. Try moving it very close to the wall, just toed in to the listening spot. I have bipolars so my reflections are different than cabinets.

[4krow]

Man, I got the same situation in my room. Sometimes, it helps to treat the offending side of that room with acoustic panels or something. I toe in the LEFT speaker a little more than the right one(the one with less 'stage'). It is a kind of whatever works is legal sort of thing. Keep us posted, 'cuz there is an answer for this I'm sure.

[Zimmer64]

Hi there,

Audio Physic has a useful guide: http://www.audiophysic.de/aufstellung/index_e.html

Best

Michael

[Doc B.]

Yeah, that's pretty good advice though I think they overplay the notion that curtains are bad. Most rooms are too live through the midband and if curtains help I'm all for it. The trick is getting some sort of treatment that diffuses sound in the very high frequencies and damps the sound in the lower treble through bass region. IME that diffusion is best served up at the back of the room. So curtains on the front wall or a side wall aren't necessarily bad, and certainly better than a glass window.

[ironbut]

Be sure that the phase of your speakers is correct. Getting a decent test disk/file is the only way to go for checking this IMHO.

One thing that I've found that can be helpful to tweak imaging is, after getting the best you can with placement/toe in etc, try adjusting the tilt and maybe height (unless your speakers are big floor mounted).
I used some wooden shims to tilt one of my Magnepans forward a bit and it really helped focus the images.

[corndog71]

1. ATS acoustic panels at the first reflection points.  (or whatever brand suits your fancy)

2. Making sure both channels are actually balanced with an spl meter.

3. Experimenting with speaker positions.  I tried one that worked well:  Measure the distance between one speaker and your primary listening position.  Make the distance between the speakers 80% of that first number.  Make sure the other speaker is also the same distance to listening position.  If it's still not great try spreading the speakers apart in 1 inch increments.  They may need some more space from the back walls too.

[chard]

Hi there,

Audio Physic has a useful guide: http://www.audiophysic.de/aufstellung/index_e.html

Best

Michael

 Great article, thanks Michael. I just got my phasing right so both speakers sound about the same volume. Now with the help of this article I can improve my soundstage.

[Grainger49]

I get the speakers a foot or two away from the side walls.  I have Michael Green sound panels at the first reflection.  Use a mirror to determine the first reflection.  You sit in the listening position and have someone move a flat mirror along the wall.  When you see the speaker in the mirror you have found the first reflection.

I have a quilt mounted on the wall behind me, the wall behind the speakers is pretty live.  But the speakers are 8 feet into the room.

I have had some odd images on the right that I found were caused by a cabinet against the wall.  The sound from the right speaker was bouncing back and giving me a really odd placement.  I have move the cabinet 4' further from the speakers.  It helps.

[drewh1]

I have been strugglling with the same issue - one side the speaker is closer too the wall and on the other, there is a doorway and window. hence, each side has totally different reflections. Unfortunately there is no other way to arrange things in this small room.

 For me it is more of a balance issue. I move the offending speaker 1/2 closer to my sitting position and that tends to be enough to balance things out.

drew.

[4krow]

Drew, I know that this is not the perfect answer, but I too, have a room with the same associated problems as yours. For me, after doing all that I can with positioning, etc. the coarse/fine volume control helps somewhat. I guess it's not much different than a balance control, and I know that this is not a balance/volume issue, but it helps non the less. I agree with Graingers idea of using a mirror to locate those reflections most troublesome. There may be a point of diminishing returns given the conditions in the first place, but it's all we can do.
 One last thing, I did experiment with sticking my entire system in the corner, giving all new directions for the reflections. Results were mixed but not unpleasant. My wife thought otherwise.

[drewh1]

Roy at Green Mountain audio raves about corner placements - you really do need the right room for that though - it's always something that keeps us just out of reach of audio perfection!  I'm still thinking of building that diffuser for my room . . .

[ssssly]

After another night of tweaking it is getting a little better.

First, the speakers are frugal horns. So I am pretty much stuck with them up against the back wall. Unless I go with a dedicated woofer from about 100hz down. Which kind of defeats the purpose of the speaker.

After about 30 different speaker positions the right speaker is now 1.5" further right than equidistant from the center. And toed in 20 vs 16 degrees for the left speaker.

This was a serious move in the right direction but I think room treatments are definitely in order. I've got a nice Persian rug that is about the size of the half wall on the right. Gonna see where that gets me and I'll report back.

Oh and the speakers are in phase. After the first time I spent a week repositioning speakers because they didn't sound right just to figure out the were out of phase, is the first thing I check. Was certainly a self critiquing realization.

And that link if a great read.

[Doc B.]

Room symmetry and symmetry of speaker placement are both very important to getting the best imaging. If the room isn't symmetrical, get the speaker as far away from the walls as possible. And one can try putting acoustically absorbent screens behind and beside the speakers to reduce the influence of the asymmetric walls. You can see what I'm talking about here:

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bottlehead.com%2FBH_08_3.jpg&hash=5d7a1e630321f2930d658edb31b35231586fd6ff)

[earwaxxer]

Looks like 10 amps per side! How does that work?