New DAC - JDS Labs ODAC

[earwaxxer]

Eric,

  I am crossing over higher than you, about 120 Hz.
Well, you know, different strokes... and we all have different systems, listening habits and  ears/brains.

Maybe it is the nature of my sub versus yours? 

Hey Granger - I would think that the Orcas make some pretty decent bass down to about 60-70hz or so. I think your sub is adding too much mud up high at 120hz. I would shoot for more like 40-50hz, try that with near field placement of the Orcas with the sub behind the listening spot.

I recently tightened my bass up quite a bit by using a pre-crossover (22uF cap with 180R resistor) in front of my Crown that has a built in variable crossover. I set the Crown to crossover at 50hz, the cap/resistor works out to about a 40hz filter. I also use a small t-amp to boost the signal from the Fiio DAC because the Crown is a pro amp this is designed for a higher input level. Sounds fantastic and I can tweak it with the adjustable crossover in the Crown. The cap/resistor crossover sits after the t-amp.

[Grainger49]

Greg,

Eric,

Yes, I think that I prefer the sound that I first heard an album to a cleaner today's sound.  At one time I was going to get some old 70s speakers for vintage rock.

P.S. aren't you two brothers from another mother?

[earwaxxer]

Granger, you call me Greg one more time! I swear! === hehe - no worries. I love Greg.

[earwaxxer]

Just to add to the above discussion (well me and Granger actually) - I put the Fiio back in the front. Definately a different sound vs. the Schiit. I like it though. I had to adjust the crossover up on my Crown to 75hz to get a good blend. The Schiit makes lower bass for sure. To be expected. I like the highs and mids thought of the Fiio. Its very flat. Go to the Fiio website and look at the specs. I would be willing to bet that the Schiit is no where near flat...

[4krow]

earwaxxer
Granger, you call me Greg one more time! I swear! === hehe - no worries. I love Greg.

   Hallucinating again I see....God what it must be like inside you head.....wait a minute we're kin of a sort, so now I'm a little scared(more than usual,,,of course this means a few more trips to the shrink next week).

[Grainger49]

After a day of RSLogix 5000 program documenting I hallucinate.

[4krow]

I was referring to EARIC

[earwaxxer]

Yes Granger - we are brothers from different mothers. The point is, I can blame the booze on my craziness. Greg, on the other hand, has some other issues that we wont get into here....

Back to the topic of "flabby bass". Its a curious phenomena for us sub woofer folks because we can experience the flabbiness in isolation by turning down the main speakers where only the sub is operating. I used to think - "well you need the other frequencies for it to sound right" -The other frequencies are needed to complement and reinforce the bass. That I realized is crap. If the bass coming from the sub is muddy its not right. I had to resort to an additional crossover to get the job done. I knew I had the right stuff. Good woofer, good cabinet, enough good power. I think the crossovers in these amps suck. Too much of the higher frequencies get through. Just my opinion. I - interesting to have many fish to fry in this hobby. I personally enjoy having my front end speakers not being "full range" so I can tweak the low end on its own.

[Paul Joppa]

I agree about steep bass crossovers. If you look at the equal loudness contours you can see that the ear is much more sensitive to harmonics of bass frequencies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lindos1.svg

The usual 12dB/octave crossover barely flattens the curve - in other words, the distortion products above the crossover frequency are completely unattenuated as far as the ear is concerned. I feel that an absolute minimum of 24dB/octave is needed, in spite of the phase rotation concerns. I don't have any direct experience of sixth or eighth order crossovers; and some point the phase anomalies will outweigh the distortion advantages, but I can't say how much attenuation is too much.

Unfortunately, an adjustable crossover needs a potentiometer per 6dB/octave section, so most sub amps have just a 12dB/oct crossover with a dual pot - quad pots being very uncommon and hence expensive. I know that many of the subs that claim a 24dB/octave slope have half of it fixed-frequency and the other half adjustable - kind of a cheap trick IMHO.

I always wanted to make a Foreplay version with second-order crossovers (FET lowpass, tube highpass) specifically for the SEXy Speaker. It would take advantage of the sub amp's 12dB filter, plus the sealed-box 12dB highpass character, for a net 24dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley acoustical crossover. But I never got around to it - and now I like the BeePre too much to fuss with the Foreplay  :^) 

[Paul Birkeland]

I've been messing around with some inexpensive dual gang pots, attempting to make a few quad deck crossover controls, but boy is it a PITA.

Doc sent me home with some adjustable active crossovers the other week, and there is a set of fancy gears behind the chassis plate to turn all the pots in unison...

[4krow]

  I've jusy got to mention that I have been down this road more than once. Sometimes I was able to get the bass that I wanted with placement and a few tweeks, but I never have regretted the SMS-1 Velodyne bass manager. I have chosen a steep 18db rolloff, and can set the phase to what works best. Of course the level and frequency can be set, but the glory of this unit is it's ability to measure with it's own mic, the room that it's working in. Plus, there is also a video out that lets you see the path you've taken per a graph. All of the settings can be done via remote. I will never sell this baby, and results are  worth the effort the first time around. I have tried the Beringer unit, that have crappy connections in the rear. I finally gave up on it and ended with this unit.

[earwaxxer]

The SMS-1 is pretty cool. Does all of the room correction in digital.