Modestly priced subwoofer for Orcas?

azrockitman · 5583

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Offline adamct

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Reply #15 on: August 02, 2013, 12:09:01 PM
"I'm not looking for a new sub, I'm perfectly happy with my existing sub. I don't claim it is the end-all, be-all of subs, but I don't find myself wanting more."   then maybe you have already answered yourself?.

Ugh. No. Again, my fault for hijacking this thread. The subject line of the thread is not related to my question. The OP was looking for a cheap sub to match his Orcas, until Doc pointed him toward the answer to his hum problem.

I then interjected with a question about how to best wire my cheap sub (which I am very happy with and not looking to replace) to play nicely with my Magneplanar MG12s (NOT Orcas). I don't have any complaints about how my system sounds right now, but I was just wondering whether the crossover in the cheap sub is likely holding back the MG12s somewhat, since I currently have my speaker cables running from my amp to the sub, and then from the sub to the MG12s.

This weekend I plan to try and run separate cables (1) from my amp to the sub and (2) from my amp to the MG12s. We'll see if that has a noticeable effect on the sound (for better or for worse).

Best regards,
Adam



Offline Clark B.

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Reply #16 on: August 02, 2013, 12:20:14 PM
I was just wondering whether the crossover in the cheap sub is likely holding back the MG12s somewhat, since I currently have my speaker cables running from my amp to the sub, and then from the sub to the MG12s.

This weekend I plan to try and run separate cables (1) from my amp to the sub and (2) from my amp to the MG12s. We'll see if that has a noticeable effect on the sound (for better or for worse).

Best regards,
Adam

Adam,

We haven't played with subs and Maggies, but we've definitely encountered this connundrum alot. 

For our Orca Subs, our solution is the "Y cables" which is prettymuch a continuous piece of wire that is simply tapped in the middle via banana plugs which are plugged into the sub amp's high level inputs.  Its a solder connection at that middle banana plug so it really doesn't hurt the conductivity of the entire speaker cable.

For our Dungeness Subs, we prefer to use the "good speaker wire" going from the stereo amp ->fullranges and then cheap wire going from fullranges' binding posts to sub amp's high level inputs.  The draw from the high level inputs of a sub amp is typically so minimal that it does not necessitate really good speaker wire to make that connection.  Also, the integrated amp in the Dungeness is a littler one than we use in the Orca Sub, and it has spring clip terminals - impossible to use a banana plug. 

------

On another note, we never wire the system through the high level in/out section of the sub amps as the binding posts and internal wiring in most sub amps tends to be pretty cheezy.  Also, you are adding unnecessary mechanical connections to the signal path of the amp->fullrange, which you are nearly guaranteed to hear. Sometimes it engages a high pass filter (usually a cheap electrolytic capacitor) for the fullranges and this also usually doesn't sound very good.

Overall, we prefer the speaker level inputs versus RCA inputs because the bass reproduction characteristics of the power tube is allowed to come through to both the full range and sub drivers - so that the system's bass balance remains proportional even if you are switching power amps for instance from a bass heavy 300B to a bass shy 45.

With the RCA hookups, you'll tend to need to retune your sub's settings when you swap in different power amps for your fullranges.  Just a twitch on the gain knob most often, but it does get a little bit annoying when running double subs for instance.

There are other benefits to the speaker level inputs that are more about the overall subjective sound quality... harder to put into words.  So I'll leave it there.

Cheers!

-Clark
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 12:57:55 PM by Clark B. »



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #17 on: August 02, 2013, 12:51:26 PM
Ok, so Adam is not the OP who is looking for a sub for Orcas. 

I guess it is a matter of what you, Adam, are looking for in addition to what you have.



Offline azrockitman

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Reply #18 on: August 02, 2013, 01:22:37 PM
Well, I am the OP!   ;D
And after being reminded of the chore that I missed (Balancing the hum pots) I did that chore and the hum i gone.  Go figure.   ::)  So it sounds ok for now.

Clark I like the option of the new sub   Thanks for pointing that out.  I'm not a facebooker, though. 

Esoteric DV-50, Technics SL1200-M3D, B&K Phono 10 Preamp, Sumiko Blue Point Special Evo III, Bottlehead Stereomour, Orca's


Offline adamct

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Reply #19 on: August 02, 2013, 03:40:37 PM
Clark,

Thanks, that was very helpful. I appreciate you taking the time to write that up. Since I already have two sets of good quality cables and my amp has dual sets of binding posts, I think the easiest is to just run separate cables to the sub and the full-ranges.

If I can test it this weekend, I'll report back and let you know what I preferred.

Thanks again,
Adam



Offline adamct

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Reply #20 on: August 04, 2013, 03:04:50 PM
So...today my wife went into NYC with my mother-in-law (visiting from Germany). With loud complaining from my twin 5-year old daughters, I took the opportunity to run the test. I swapped the speaker cables to run directly from my amp. It may well be my imagination, but I found the mids gain an extra degree of clarity and richness (not that I've ever had any complaints about the mids from my MG12s), and the highs seemed a tiny bit crisper (possibly a little too crisp, but not offensive). But the sound could sometimes feel a bit brittle, a bit thin, and a bit flat. Not only that, the bass felt a bit muddled. I attributed the confusion in the bass to the overlap between the full-range MG12s (without a crossover between them and the amp) and the sub. But I was confused by how the overall sound changed for the worse. I kept trying to figure it out, but I couldn't. Eventually I decided to try and resolve the bass muddle by lowering the crossover frequency on the sub. I reached back to the sub, and noticed....it wasn't on! Somehow the power plug had fallen out. I plugged it back in, and all was right with the world. The bass tightened up, the sound became rounded, full and three-dimensional. No problems whatsoever. Glad I tried this!



Offline adamct

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Reply #21 on: August 04, 2013, 03:40:54 PM
FWIW, despite the seemingly negative comments above, I'm actually impressed by the bass from the MG12s. It was still powerful enough that it never even occurred to me that the sub wasn't on. But there is no question that I much prefer them when complemented by a sub.

Best regards,
Adam