Looking For the Next Step From Some Frugal Horns

[Mister Pig]

The system is pretty well SET now....snort oink grunt oink snort.....okay okay, I mean my electronics are chosen and are not going anywhere soon. I like them very much.

What is left is the speaker system. The current speakers are in a set of Frugal Horn Sachiko back loaded horns. Drivers are a pair of first generation Fostex 208 Sigma, with dual runs of Cardas SE 15 wiring and Cardas copper binding posts. The sound is good, I cannot argue that, but I am looking to do a long term set of high performance speakers.

Now pigs are not rich, that's a known fact. So I have been considering options for horns, either vintage, used, or...well we don't know or. I have considered Altec 15 and 19, or 604's if i can get a cabinet maker to work me up a box. I also considered something along the lines of a used pair of Klipsch Belle if I can find them. Even considered reworking a pair of Speakerlab K Horns with the wood horn kits like the V-Trac. Also thought of something along the lines of a pair of JBL 4330.

Amp is 8 WPC at best, probably closer to 6 WPC.

Open to suggestions.

Regards
Mister Pig

[Paul Birkeland]

...I have considered Altec 15 and 19, or 604's...

I think these might be just the ticket to induce a little wallowing!

[Mister Pig]

...I have considered Altec 15 and 19, or 604's...

I think these might be just the ticket to induce a little wallowing!

The 15 are somewhat easier to come by than the 19, and are pretty affordable. But that horn does not look to be anywhere close to the one in the 19. Any idea how close the 15 can come in terms of sound quality? Bass extension is not the most important thing, but tone, layering, an even frequency balance....that is what I am looking for....and that lovely low level detail.

Regards
Mister Pig

[Paul Birkeland]

I'd go for the 604.  The cabinets have to be pretty big, but not enormous.

[Mmaxed]

You might want to put Valencias on your Altec list.  I don't know how farm animal's hearing is, but the Vals work well for me.  My hearing rolls off at 10-12k just like the speakers so I don't know what is missing up top.

[Paully]

I had Altec Valencia's.  I have the 19s now.  If I had it to over again I would stick with the Valencia's.  not that the 19s aren't great, they are, but for the price difference I was happy enough before.  Also had klipsh.  Spend the extra and get the Altecs.  You can buy the Valencias and upgrade the crossover easily.  What I did with the Model 19s was wait until empty cabinets came up, and they come up periodically, then filled them with old metal Altec horns but modern GPA drivers.  GPA is every bit as good as the original Altec and then you know you are getting modern stuff in spec.  Anyway, that was how I went about it.

[Mister Pig]

Well if I can chase up a pair of either Altec' s I will buy them. Unfortunately in rural Eastern Washington that is almost an impossible task.

That is a problem with high efficiency speakers, they do tend to run on the large side. Whenever I sell these Sachiko off, I suspect it's not going to be the easiest endeavor.

Any candidates under the JBL brand? Might be easier to find something in Seattle or Spokane.

Regards
Mister Pig

[Paul Birkeland]

Hmm, you should talk to Clark about custom options.  He does travel to Eastern Washington pretty frequently.

[ssssly]

Have or have had all the aforementioned speakers. So my take on the list.

19s are among my favorite speakers. Just something magical about them for me.

15s are nice not a favorite.

Valencias better than 15s not as good as 19s.

Belle no where near any of them.

Now as far as the Sachikos go. Before you go throwing the baby out with the bathwater you may want to get a decent pair of subs and tweeters for them. Sachikos with proper stereo subs and tweeters are pretty amazing. Different than the Altecs you are talking about but not worse.

Of course just my humble opinion and ymmv. But I would start by throwing some tweeters on those Sachikos. I think you will find that it a different experience all together than without.

[Paully]

Ssssly makes good points.  The reason I was fond of the Valencias was they played better at lower volumes, which matters to me.  Most prefer the 19s over the Valencia, and way above the 15 for both.

As far as finding a pair, I drove several hundred miles to get my cabinets, so unless you live in Atlanta, Chicago, etc, yep... you are probably going to be driving to get them.

JBL - not a clue!  But modern JBL is not vintage JBL and the good stuff under that brand is just as hard to find as Altec, if not harder.

Klipsch isn't as great as Altec in my book, but Cornwalls, Chorus IIs, Fortes, and Klipschorns do come up more often.  No idea how they would stack up against what you alreadymhavemthough.

[Mister Pig]

Most of my time with SET has been with full range drivers. My first SET friendly speakers were a set of Cabasse farella 401, and that was a lot of years ago. I spent some time with the Altier First Horn, and eventually ran a set of Audio Nirvana Super 12 in a 2.8 CF cabinet for quite a few years. Bought the Sachiko cabinets off of Audiogon from the builder in California and had them shipped up here. Owned them about 4 years now.

Started with the recommended driver for them 206E, and was really underwhelmed with the driver. Pretty coarse sounding, and that says something cause the AN drivers are not exactly linear. Eventually  found a pair of Fostex 208 Sigma- first generation- drivers for the cabinet, which is what I am currently using. Better driver all around, more even in tonal balance, more refined sounding, it was all around a better performer. The cabinets are wired up with Cardas SE 15, Cardas copper binding posts, and parts Express Sonic Barrier in the compression chamber. Yes I did listen to hte speaker with poly fill batting at the throat before putting in the SB, and things did sound better with the latter.

Actually I have no complaint about the top end of the Fostex drivers, it is fairly open and nicely balanced. What I am looking to do is improve the harmonic texture of music, the better high efficiency speakers I have listened to do a better job at this in my experience. just the opinion of a simple pig mind you. Not that the Sachiko sound bad at all, they are very very good....but I am of the opinion that they have become the limiting factor. I do use a sub with them, an Infinity Cascade Model 15. A bit of an unconventional choice, but it has the traits to be a pretty good audio sub. Cabinet is stout and inert, just shy of 100 pounds as I recall. 4 smaller diaphragm drivers...6 inch square...so not a lot of cone mass to try to control. Does use Infinity bass management system, which works reasonably well. I run the Sachiko full range, and roll the sub in at slightly below 50 hertz.

One more thought. So if I were to locate a pair of Altec 604 drivers, do you suppose I could get away with having a cabinet built for a kilo buck unfinished?

Regards
Mister Pig

[johnsonad]

I've heard 604's in many different cabs and liked most of them. The easiest you can build would be a 9cF plus sealed box with the drivers at ear level. A buddy has a pair like this and I'm always impressed by the sound of his speakers. GPA will sell you box plans if you ask Todd and there are many box plans out there free of charge. They are not complicated and a local competent builder should be able to build you a pair for under 1k (I'm guessing).  GPA had two or three current offerings, one using ALNICO magnets if that's your thing. The guys over on Host Board, Altec users forum will be a better bet on advising you with Altec's.

[earwaxxer]

I had the Speaker Lab horns in the 70's - Loved them! - fantastic sound - NOW - I would try some high efficiency ribbons. Just a suggestion...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=276-430

[Mister Pig]

I had the Speaker Lab horns in the 70's - Loved them! - fantastic sound - NOW - I would try some high efficiency ribbons. Just a suggestion...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=276-430

I think I have read somewhere that some people are using the Heil driver for high efficiency speakers. Not sure how that all works out, and if only the current production model is the preferred one. Perhaps one can repurpose the drivers from a used pair. But finding proper crossover information for them seems to be a bit tricky.

Regards
Mister Pig

[2wo]

I have a pair of the Heil drivers used with my Horns. With Ed's series crossover and my SR-45, the Heil's are awesome...John