Tube Rolling w/Crack

Dr. Toobz · 1229102

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Offline nick-seattle

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Reply #345 on: May 04, 2012, 11:24:53 AM
How is it pure to ignore these benefits? Does it make you a "better" tube guy to forego better sound quality by deliberately avoiding transistors?

This is absolutely just an OPINION I have. I have a hybrid headphone amp and it does sound very good - so I'm not a complete purist, but I have more PERSONAL fun by rolling tubes and discovering incredible sound than changing amp circuitry - to each its own. However, I do believe that tube amps without transistors sound perfectly . I went through many amps and still have to find something that sounds better than McIntosh 275 with Vienna Acoustics Beethoven (plus Genesys sub - so there are transistors involved :D) - at least to MY ears, this is a sonic paradise - with the right tubes.

No how about rolling one of these tubes in Crack? :D
http://www.stereomojo.com/KR%20Audio%20Kronzilla%20SX1%20Mk%20II%20Review/KRAudioKronzillaSX1MkIIAmplifierReview.htm



Offline nick-seattle

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Reply #346 on: May 04, 2012, 12:14:17 PM
So I've been rolling today :) I tried to put 6sn7 (RCA 5692 Red Base) against 12bh7 (Sylvania gray round plates) against 12au7 (Mazda). I would say these are the best of the best in each family.

Here are my findings:
6sn7 - great bass, good details, very well developed mid-range - very forward, not much air - it's all kind there in the music, but doesn't wrap you up in it.
12bh7 - great bass, great details, more air than 6sn7. mid-range is not as developed. Much more feeling of being there.
12au7 - bass is not as good as previous two, phenomenal air, superb mid-range. With this tube there is a spooky feeling of being there. It's like seating on a stage with the artist.

Did blind testing with my wife - the only thing she knows about tubes is that they take a lot of money and a lot of my time :) Out of the 3, she stated that she loved Mazda again because of the "being there" feeling.

One of the best performances for this are: Patric Bruel - L'appart - Seul Ou Presque.

Disclaimer: This is my personal OPINION. Your results may vary. 12bh7 is a great tube :)



Offline BNAL

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Reply #347 on: May 04, 2012, 01:46:24 PM
Nick,

You got my attention with your posts and switched out my personal favorites, CBS 5814A and 5998 for the Mazda 12AU7 and RCA 6AS7G. Listening to the later combo now and loving it. I'm not going to say witch I thinks is better, because I really don't know but really enjoying this combo.

Brad Nalitt
Iron Upgraded S.E.X. Amp 2.0
Foreplay III
Quickie w/PJCCS
Eros Phono
Blumenstein Orca Speakers, Baby Benthic Subs
S.E.X.y Speakers W/FT17H Horn Tweeters
Thorens TD 125 MkII W/ Shure M97xE JICO SAS Stylus


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #348 on: May 04, 2012, 02:14:58 PM
In spite of my technical remarks in this thread, I love it. Reminds me of the early days of the Foreplay, when people stuck pretty much anything with 9 pins into the sockets just to see what happens - hey, it's cheap fun and even if something blows up you can fix it, there aren't many parts and they are not expensive. I can gas on all day about optimal operating points, distortion, headroom, etc - but none of us would be here if it wasn't also FUN!

Paul Joppa


Offline nick-seattle

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Reply #349 on: May 04, 2012, 06:12:21 PM
In spite of my technical remarks in this thread, I love it. Reminds me of the early days of the Foreplay, when people stuck pretty much anything with 9 pins into the sockets just to see what happens - hey, it's cheap fun and even if something blows up you can fix it, there aren't many parts and they are not expensive. I can gas on all day about optimal operating points, distortion, headroom, etc - but none of us would be here if it wasn't also FUN!

Exactly!!! If you stick it and love it - "roll" with it!!!



Offline nick-seattle

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Reply #350 on: May 04, 2012, 06:33:44 PM
Nick,

You got my attention with your posts and switched out my personal favorites, CBS 5814A and 5998 for the Mazda 12AU7 and RCA 6AS7G. Listening to the later combo now and loving it. I'm not going to say witch I thinks is better, because I really don't know but really enjoying this combo.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the combo of Mazda and 5998. I was thinking about pulling the plug on 5998, but hesitate a bit. The darn thing sounds so good right now that I can't even imagine it sounding better ;) Try Svetlana, it costs very little to try (compared to 5998), it adds a bit of air compared to RCA.

Lately, I've been in love with with Mazda. Everything I try - starting from 12ax7 with silver plates (not in Crack) to 12at7 to 12au7 is absolutely phenomenal. I was impressed by the air that telefunkens can create, but telefunkens are not match to Mazda. I got a huge deal today on ebay. $100 for 5 Mazda 12au7 marked with GE brand!!! They guy wanted much more for it, but Ebay is like any other market - you can negotiate. This one is with the slit in the plate - that's the one I have right now - absolutely phenomenal. I couldn't understand what soundstage was to it's full extent until I got Mazda - I have no idea what French put in it, but darn  - C'est si bon. Oh no, I've been listening to french tubes tooooo long. :D Now I'm waiting for another set of 4 Mazda - this time it's military Cifte with a round hole in the plate. I will post my impressions as soon as I get them. Ebay is a gold mine if you are willing to negotiate :) I would love to compare this to the SELECT Telefunkens that I have, these bustards sell for $225 a tube, I got it with my McIntosh, but 12au7s perform poorly in MC (Yes I did put them in MC even if the spec said that I only should put 12ax7 - whatever).               



Offline BNAL

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Reply #351 on: May 05, 2012, 03:07:33 AM
Nick,

I think what you like about the Mazda and what makes it different from the rest of the tubes is that it has a cleaner sound and not the traditional tubie sound. That is one of the reasons I believe in your comparison a few post back that you found it did not have as much base as the other tubes.

The 6AS7G is a great tube and no brianer recommendation. The 5998 I believe takes you to that next level, but that is my opinion. From what you discribe about what you like with the sound I found that the 5998 did it for me.

Brad Nalitt
Iron Upgraded S.E.X. Amp 2.0
Foreplay III
Quickie w/PJCCS
Eros Phono
Blumenstein Orca Speakers, Baby Benthic Subs
S.E.X.y Speakers W/FT17H Horn Tweeters
Thorens TD 125 MkII W/ Shure M97xE JICO SAS Stylus


Offline Laudanum

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Reply #352 on: May 06, 2012, 10:38:42 AM
Nick,

I think what you like about the Mazda and what makes it different from the rest of the tubes is that it has a cleaner sound and not the traditional tubie sound. That is one of the reasons I believe in your comparison a few post back that you found it did not have as much base as the other tubes.

The 6AS7G is a great tube and no brianer recommendation. The 5998 I believe takes you to that next level, but that is my opinion. From what you discribe about what you like with the sound I found that the 5998 did it for me.

Agreed, that what it sounds like to me as well.  I dont have a Mazda tube but Im catching a "drift" here so to speak.   Nick,  I think it would be worth trying the 5998 but you may need to again be prepared to roll the driver.   Also, dont completely dismiss the Speedball.  I believe it will give you exactly what you are trying to achieve with tube rolling.  You arent breaking any "rules" with it.  I was a bit resistant as well.  Take advantage of what technology has to offer.  You may save some money on buying all them tubes  :o
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 10:42:27 AM by Laudanum »

Desmond G.


Offline nick-seattle

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Reply #353 on: May 06, 2012, 03:15:40 PM
I just got two 5998 on Ebay today for $30  :o. They are weak but in working condition as the seller claims - we will see - I hope they are at least not DOA.

I'm quite sure that I will try Speedball sometime in the future. Yesterday I added Triad Choke and quite impressed with absolute silence that the amp produces. I still hear hiss, but only at extreme volume levels - I can't use the amp at that level (with Mazda for example, which is superbly quiet, I have to max the amp out to hear a hiss) - I usually push the volume up on my PC and can reduce the amp volume to a fairly low level.

I also got recently Xonar Essence STX audio card for my PC and very impressed. No more interference from PC and absolute silence during pause. The card has -124 db SNR! Very impressive. It also has a built in headphone amp - not very impressive. A standard SS sound (although a good one) - good bass, but not much air, no feeling of presence - boring. But based on specs it kills Crack :D



Offline nick-seattle

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Reply #354 on: May 07, 2012, 08:47:30 PM
I broke up and change Crack to accept 12ax7 :) Now the amp works with 12au7, 12ax7 and 6sn7 families. What can I say - I love it. The sound is superb. It's not possible to find in 12au7, which has its own stars, tubes that sound like Sylvania GB 5751 or Raytheon 5751 Windmill.

Paul, thanks for you help in making the mod. The diode & resistor did the trick.



Offline nick-seattle

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Reply #355 on: May 08, 2012, 02:30:06 PM
BTW, I got Bellari HA540 today to roll 12ax7 tubes... 30 minutes later I printed return shipment label and sent it on its happy way back to where it came from. Crack Rules!!! I don't even want to compare the two.



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #356 on: May 08, 2012, 05:03:43 PM
Here's an old story about 12AX7s that you might not have heard - it goes back to the second (?) VSAC, somewhere in the late 90s (?).

My late friend Tim Lollar (brother of the excellent boutique guitar pickup maker Jason Lollar) built a preamp with sockets for something like ten different tubes, switch selectable. All of them were on all the time to eliminate warmup effect, and each was operated at its own optimal current, giving identical normalized operating points. So we could pretty much count on technically identical operation, leaving only tube and gain differences. We adjusted the gain for identical outputs.

We did a mass listening comparison at the show with a crowd of about 35 people, each filling out their own rating sheet. The tubes were not identified until the session was over, and I as speaker did not know in what order Time was switching them. As close to a double-blind comparison as we could manage. No discussion was permitted until we had gone through all the tubes - of course, a pretty lively discussion followed (and carried over to the bar after)!

The interesting thing was, in the discussion nobody liked the 12AX7, and hardly anyone even mentioned it. IIRC, 6SN7s and 01A's were highly regarded, with a smattering of several others. Several months later, I tried to make statistical sense of the ratings. First place was all over the map. BUT ... for a clear majority, the 12AX7 was their second-favorite. I guess it was a little too politically-incorrect among audiophiles at the time, probably because it's a guitar tube. But in blind listening, it was very popular. I never found any other statistically-meaningful result from the test, and we never published the results. But I do tell the story now and then...  :^)

Paul Joppa


Offline nick-seattle

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Reply #357 on: May 08, 2012, 05:29:31 PM
Here's an old story about 12AX7s that you might not have heard - it goes back to the second (?) VSAC, somewhere in the late 90s (?).

My late friend Tim Lollar (brother of the excellent boutique guitar pickup maker Jason Lollar) built a preamp with sockets for something like ten different tubes, switch selectable. All of them were on all the time to eliminate warmup effect, and each was operated at its own optimal current, giving identical normalized operating points. So we could pretty much count on technically identical operation, leaving only tube and gain differences. We adjusted the gain for identical outputs.

We did a mass listening comparison at the show with a crowd of about 35 people, each filling out their own rating sheet. The tubes were not identified until the session was over, and I as speaker did not know in what order Time was switching them. As close to a double-blind comparison as we could manage. No discussion was permitted until we had gone through all the tubes - of course, a pretty lively discussion followed (and carried over to the bar after)!

The interesting thing was, in the discussion nobody liked the 12AX7, and hardly anyone even mentioned it. IIRC, 6SN7s and 01A's were highly regarded, with a smattering of several others. Several months later, I tried to make statistical sense of the ratings. First place was all over the map. BUT ... for a clear majority, the 12AX7 was their second-favorite. I guess it was a little too politically-incorrect among audiophiles at the time, probably because it's a guitar tube. But in blind listening, it was very popular. I never found any other statistically-meaningful result from the test, and we never published the results. But I do tell the story now and then...  :^)

That is hilarious :) I love 12ax7 no matter what people are saying about them - they provide tremendous dynamic impact and superb clarity. Since it's one of the most popular tubes, I bet a lot of funds were invested in developing it. For some reason, I actually prefer the rare dark gray (kind of hazy) color 12ax7 tubes. I found them among Westinghouse and RCA brands - I bet other ones made them as well - so many tubes to try :) If I understand correctly these were created during the transition in from Black to Gray material.

To be honest, the goal of the transition was to convert the amp to support 5751 tubes. To my ears, these are one of the most incredible tubes created. I mean Sylvania 5814 GB is awesome, but the 5751 gray plates (not a big fan of black plates 5751) with 3 mica is magical. So now I have two favorites: 1) Sylvania 5751 GB - when I want to listen to something very personal - think Melody Gardot; 2) Mazda 12ax7 or 12au7 - when I'm listening to concerts or classical music.



Offline Noskipallwd

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Reply #358 on: May 09, 2012, 01:32:48 AM
This is for anyone with experience using the 12AX7. Any preferred brands? NOS or Current production? Just purchased a used Jolida FX tube Dac that I am modifying and is slated for my bedroom system. It uses 12AX7s in the output.

Cheers,
Shawn

Shawn Prigmore


Offline Beefy

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Reply #359 on: May 09, 2012, 02:57:09 AM
This is for anyone with experience using the 12AX7. Any preferred brands? NOS or Current production? Just purchased a used Jolida FX tube Dac that I am modifying and is slated for my bedroom system. It uses 12AX7s in the output.

I know that the electrostatic headphone technophiles like the new production JJ. They have the very low noise and microphonics required for high gain applications.