thinking about buying a turntable

aragorn723 · 20570

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Offline Loggie

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Reply #15 on: May 24, 2015, 10:12:06 AM
Hi Dave,

Personally I would go for the platter upgrade as well.
I'm not really a big fan of MDF platters as I like my platters to be more solid.

The Uturn is a great way to step into the World of Vinyl without breaking the bank (it even has a unipivot arm ).
And its always possible to upgrade the Grado for another type in the future.

I would say go for it!

The reduction will work with the Uturn as its working with MM Cartridges which the Grado Black 1 happens to be.


Arno

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Offline aragorn723

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Reply #16 on: May 24, 2015, 02:17:40 PM
Hi Arno,

Yep, it looks pretty sweet!  I looked at a whole bunch of other turntables (project, music hall, rega, marantz) up to around $450, and none of them had the same signal to noise ratio as the uturn (they were a lot lower).  What about grounding?  Is it better to have external grounding ?  I think the uturn is internally grounded.  Any thoughts?

Dave



Offline Chris65

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Reply #17 on: May 24, 2015, 02:29:22 PM
All turntables will have a ground wire from the tonearm which connects to the ground post on the phono stage.
Just be aware that Grado cartridges are well known for 'hum' because the way they are designed & is somewhat system dependent.



Offline aragorn723

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Reply #18 on: May 24, 2015, 03:04:08 PM
Would this allow me to run a ground wire to the reduction?  The uturns dont have a phono stage built in.  Thanks for the heads up on the grados, gonna keep that in mind.  My concern would be buying one of these and having an annoying hum  :o



Offline Chris65

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Reply #19 on: May 24, 2015, 04:53:23 PM
Ok, I just looked. I see that it doesn't have provision for a ground wire, & as you mention they say it is 'internally grounded' I think they are connecting the tonearm ground to one of the signal grounds, so a separate wire is not needed.
A quick web search also brings a response from the makers say that a separate ground wire can be run from the 'tonearm PCB' if needed.

Anyway, it's not an issue really. I find that I don't actually need to run the ground wire to my Reduction, it makes no difference either way. Different set-ups may vary though, don't know until you try.
Same thing re the Grado cartridges. I had one in one deck that was fine, another in a different deck hummed like mad.



Offline aragorn723

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Reply #20 on: May 24, 2015, 05:08:59 PM
thanks for the tips :)  The ground makes sense, that would mean the shell of the rca would go to the ground on the phono stage, which should result in no hum.  Is the grado issue a manufacturing issue (tolerance /QC issues) or could it be that the 2 grados were in different setups with different rfi/emi environments?  I'm kind of curious about that one, been listening to a set of Grado headphones at work for the last couple of years, and they work perfectly still, like out of the box.  The comparison isn't the same since headphones aren't microphonic, though the quality is definitely there (can't even get them to make noise when jiggling the connector).  Maybe the thing to do is buy one, and if it gets annoying, send it back and let uturn deal with it  8)  Was the SQ of the Grado nice when it worked? 

For me, I have a somewhat crowded entertainment center (rotel cdp, onkyo ht receiver, sony blu ray, nintendo wii, senheiser wireless headphones, quickie, dac...) so fitting in a turntable may be tricky (and susceptible to noise).  The only place I can think of is on the floor underneath the entertainment center (maybe on a roll-out tray or something?)  Could this be an issue?

Dave



Offline Chris65

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Reply #21 on: May 24, 2015, 05:29:36 PM
No, it's not QC, they are nicely made. It's the design, they have a patent on their particular generator, I don't know the details off-hand. You can search 'Grado hum', you'll find lots of reading.

Anyway, not trying to put you off, just providing information for a prospective buyer.
The Orbit Plus with the cartridge & acrylic platter is a pretty sweet deal for a starter turntable.



Offline fullheadofnothing

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Reply #22 on: May 24, 2015, 07:49:47 PM
Grados don't hum. Motors hum and Grados (and several other cartridges) pick it up. I have no experience with the UTurn design. Search for people's experiences with the turntable and cartridge you are looking at, or contact the company.

Not all tonearms have a ground wire. Those that do not will have the body of the arm connected to the negative of one channel's RCA.

Joshua Harris

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Offline Chris65

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Reply #23 on: May 25, 2015, 01:59:15 AM
Grados don't hum. Motors hum and Grados (and several other cartridges) pick it up.

Yes, true Joshua. My terminology was a bit loose, but Grados are known to be more susceptible to picking up that hum.
Less likely in a deck with a small DC motor & a rubber band. ;D



Offline aragorn723

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Reply #24 on: May 25, 2015, 03:06:53 AM
one other thing to notice is that the tonearm and motor are on completely opposite ends of the table.  Hopefully that results in enough isolation.

Dave



Offline Chris65

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Reply #25 on: May 25, 2015, 03:55:19 AM
They usually are, for that very reason. ;D



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #26 on: May 25, 2015, 05:39:09 AM
Dave,

If you settle on a turntable without a seperate ground you can easily run a wire from the chassis of the TT to the Reduction.

As for "Grado Hum" I have listened to two Grados in the past 23 years and have never had hum.  I didn't buy the $35 Grado, I bought a better one.  The first one was on my Thorens TD 160 then my VPI HW-19.  The new one only on the HW-19.  The hum that is so famous and seldom heard is from bad motors that radiate AC hum.



Offline Chris65

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Reply #27 on: May 25, 2015, 05:48:05 AM
The hum that is so famous and seldom heard is from bad motors that radiate AC hum.

So how come I've heard it Grainger? Yes, I use a vintage idler drive turntable with a powerful AC motor (which is not bad), but no other cartridge including SPU, London Decca, Audio Technica, Nagaoka, Grace, Stanton, etc have the same issue?



Offline aragorn723

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Reply #28 on: May 25, 2015, 05:48:34 AM
Hi Grainger,

I'm looking at the Grado Black 1 (~$70), maybe it's time to check out some more info on that.  As far as the uturn, I watched a bunch of videos on youtube, and read a bunch of reviews on the internet, and haven't heard any mention of a hum issue.  The general consensus is that it is a well-engineered table, and has some cutting edge features such as the unipivot tonearm.  Of course there is always potential to pick up hum depending on the setup, but as long as there is a good ground there shouldn't be an issue.  Another interesting thing though is the s/n ratio.  It is stated on their website as 79db.  Oddly enough, that's the highest spec I could find on a turntable (after around $450 or so there weren't any specs for the s/n ratio).  Could this really be a true spec value?  I wonder if sometimes manufacturers inflate specs to sell a product (like quoting peak power on an amplifier vs. RMS power).

Dave



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #29 on: May 25, 2015, 06:13:19 AM
I wouldn't fret about signal to noise ratio on a turntable.  If the record you're playing gets some dust on it, the SNR will go down accordingly.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man