Tube Rolling w/Crack

Dr. Toobz · 759002

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Offline slice22358

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Reply #1470 on: December 08, 2016, 12:57:15 PM
If a newcomer to Crack asks me what the best readily available / budget tubes would be i'd recommend the Russian combination.
6H13C with Genalex Gold Lion ECC82 new production.

Great starter pack: full bodied bass, large soundstage, musical mids. A combination made for easy listening, hour after hour.

Edit: And i never encountered any problems with these tubes.

This is what I decided to do as my first foray into tube rolling. I got the 6H13C last week and had no problems. Today I got the ECC82 in the mail and now my Crack has a bunch of popping and a low but rather loud hum. I had had occasional popping before, but nothing that lasted. The hum has never happened before. Did I just get a bad tube?

EDIT: Just put the original tube in and now it's humming too. Oh boy.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 01:03:56 PM by slice22358 »



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1471 on: December 08, 2016, 01:46:39 PM
You may want to start a new thread if you're having issues with your build, but what you describe is typical of a flaky solder joint that's acting up from rolling tubes.

-PB

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline slice22358

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Reply #1472 on: December 08, 2016, 04:47:23 PM
Sorry if I posted in the wrong place, but thanks because that was indeed the problem.



Offline Tom-s

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Reply #1473 on: December 09, 2016, 04:30:58 AM
After the comments about Russian tubes i started looking around a bit for more tube rolling options.
I stumbled upon the following tubes:
6n6p -> Could work with ECC182 / 7119 / 5687 mod and adapter
6n1p -> Just needs an adapter?
Both are higher gain, different pinout and have other electrical parameters vs ECC82 and so are NOT to be used in a standard Crack.


Reading material: http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html






Offline mcandmar

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Reply #1474 on: December 09, 2016, 05:12:57 AM
The only drop in replacement Rusky tube is the 6H8C which is a 6SN7, which of course means you need an octal socket converter.

The metal base Melz tubes are extremely clean and detailed sounding, and the earlier hole plates are that bit better again.  Unfortunately those ones are getting hard to find so expect to find some silly asking prices for them.

M.McCandless


Offline Tom-s

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Reply #1475 on: December 09, 2016, 05:36:04 AM
I only do use one 6SN7 and it seems like it is the one you described, but labeled 1578.
Crappy phone pic:
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fep1.pinkbike.org%2Fp5pb14224579%2Fp5pb14224579.jpg&hash=a97e1e9cc022f6583a360907b1d868528d5f660a)

Edit but the reason i'm looking into these other russians is because of their low prices.
More comments on the 6n6p and 6n1p are most welcome.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 05:37:55 AM by Tom-s »



Offline mcandmar

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Reply #1476 on: December 09, 2016, 05:47:13 AM
Yup one of them :)

M.McCandless


Offline Tom-s

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Reply #1477 on: December 10, 2016, 11:33:09 AM
Another tube that might be worth trying in Crack, the 6211: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/137/6/6211.pdf

Anyone tried these?



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1478 on: December 14, 2016, 02:42:02 PM
The 6N1P may hit a plate voltage that isn't too far off (it will require an adapter, and I don't know how you'll ground the shield pin with an adapter that plugs into a socket with no ground reference), but you really don't want more gain in the Crack.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline attmci

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Reply #1479 on: December 16, 2016, 05:01:55 PM
Sorry if I posted in the wrong place, but thanks because that was indeed the problem.

NOS tube may give the popping sounds you described. Let it warm up a little bit should solve your problem.

"Humming" noise may come from wifi, computer, cell phone............and of cause bad tubes.



Offline attmci

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Reply #1480 on: December 16, 2016, 05:03:45 PM
The 6N1P may hit a plate voltage that isn't too far off (it will require an adapter, and I don't know how you'll ground the shield pin with an adapter that plugs into a socket with no ground reference), but you really don't want more gain in the Crack.


Yup, use a ECC83 if you wanna more gain. LOL :o



Offline Tom-s

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Reply #1481 on: December 16, 2016, 08:42:56 PM
I don't really get that?
For me the 33 amplification factor isn't too far from the 32 amplification factor (vs 17 ecc82) i'm using atm.
The power tube has an amplification of 5 (vs 2 for 6080).
Is there a problem with these causing too much stress on any component in the circuitry?



Offline attmci

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Reply #1482 on: December 17, 2016, 04:09:43 AM
I don't really get that?
For me the 33 amplification factor isn't too far from the 32 amplification factor (vs 17 ecc82) i'm using atm.
The power tube has an amplification of 5 (vs 2 for 6080).
Is there a problem with these causing too much stress on any component in the circuitry?

 The PT-3 power transformer spec is a maximum of 3.5 amps RMS.

I am also curious what the new power transformer specs in the new crack 1.1.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 04:15:00 AM by attmci »



Offline Doc B.

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Reply #1483 on: December 17, 2016, 05:53:31 AM
First of all, the 6080 is running as a cathode follower, so its gain is in fact slightly negative. Secondly, sure, you can build an amp with any gain you want. But how it works with other gear may be very unpredictable. If there is a generally accepted range for the gain of each component in the chain it becomes possible to design the circuits in such a way that the noise floor of one component doesn't get amplified by the next one so much as to intrude in the music. The 12AU7 has plenty of gain for the application. More gain isn't impossible to use, but it doesn't necessarily make anything better and might create a noise problem.

The power transformer current rating has nothing to do with the gain structure.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline attmci

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Reply #1484 on: December 17, 2016, 10:41:58 AM


The power transformer current rating has nothing to do with the gain structure.

True. But it will be interesting to know.