Is this Volume Pot Output To Ground the Same As That?

Bill Epstein · 2718

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Offline Bill Epstein

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Foreplay 2.1 Volume Control Padding:

I had the output shunt (is that the term?) to ground by a single 10k resistor to ground connected to both output lugs. I thought the soundstage was kinda muddled in the middle although violins were mostly left and cellos right. Mostly.

Decided that maybe that was electrically the same as 2 discrete channel grounds but not the right way to go for channel separation and went into the circuit. While I was at it I removed the really great $25 Valab attenuator from my control box  to switch it with the RS Pot.

Complicating matters, the Valab has SMD resistors which I somehow managed to solder connections to back when we were still young with Prayer and 28 ga. XLO solid core. How I miss it! Anyway, no way I was gonna try to solder those again and I left as much of the XLO as I could, connecting it to the switch and padding resistors. Since I couldn't join the shunt at the lugs, I thought running the outputs to the tube pins and a common wire to both tube pins connecting to the single resistor to ground would be the way to go.

Then I looked at the result. The left and right tubes are connected to each other at Pin 2, the grounding resistor downstream from there. That can't be right.

If I keep the individual connections of Left and Right ouputs to the respective Pin 2 inputs, then run a separate 10k from those Pin 2s to ground, would that be the answer? Keeps the channel separation AND the proper shunt?


 

VPI Traveler/ZYX R50
Cinemag 3440 AH
Steve Brown Caravaggio Phono
Foreplay 2.1
The Twins: 55 Watt Mullard 5-20 KT-88 mono-Blocks
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Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 08:04:20 AM
Foreplay 2.1 Volume Control Padding:

I had the output shunt (is that the term?) to ground by a single 10k resistor to ground connected to both output lugs.

That's not what you want to do. That will mess with the pot resistance curve, give you whacky input impedance, and not really provide much padding down low where you need it.

A 10K resistor by itself cannot be used with a 100K pot for pre-attenuation.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Bill Epstein

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Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 08:25:53 AM
I should have written that the 10ks are in concert with 100ks on the inputs as you advised last month when I built it.

VPI Traveler/ZYX R50
Cinemag 3440 AH
Steve Brown Caravaggio Phono
Foreplay 2.1
The Twins: 55 Watt Mullard 5-20 KT-88 mono-Blocks
4 Pi Speakers


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 09:02:01 AM
Can you draw what you have?   If you had a 10K resistor across input and ground on each pot, and a 100K resistor between the input and the pot, that would pad down the input properly.

-PB

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Bill Epstein

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Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 10:29:28 AM
PIC:

VPI Traveler/ZYX R50
Cinemag 3440 AH
Steve Brown Caravaggio Phono
Foreplay 2.1
The Twins: 55 Watt Mullard 5-20 KT-88 mono-Blocks
4 Pi Speakers


Offline Bill Epstein

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Reply #5 on: June 13, 2015, 01:57:29 PM
150k should have read 100k.

Something must be right because it sounds great.

VPI Traveler/ZYX R50
Cinemag 3440 AH
Steve Brown Caravaggio Phono
Foreplay 2.1
The Twins: 55 Watt Mullard 5-20 KT-88 mono-Blocks
4 Pi Speakers


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #6 on: June 13, 2015, 08:54:05 PM
What are the two toggle switches for?

The signal needs to go into either 3 or 1, whichever isn't grounded.  The signal comes out of 2 and goes to the preamp.


Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Bill Epstein

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Reply #7 on: June 14, 2015, 02:06:20 AM
Sorry, I can't even Paint-By-Number


VPI Traveler/ZYX R50
Cinemag 3440 AH
Steve Brown Caravaggio Phono
Foreplay 2.1
The Twins: 55 Watt Mullard 5-20 KT-88 mono-Blocks
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Offline Bill Epstein

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 It came to me in a dream that the Attenuator was 50k and George's circuit wasn't going to be happy no matter what padding I tried.

I swapped the 100ks in series with the VC input for 47 k and removed the 10k to ground.

That's it! 12 o'clock is serious listening loud, the tone is as good as the Attenuator unpowered and the better dynamics and weight are there in spades.

VPI Traveler/ZYX R50
Cinemag 3440 AH
Steve Brown Caravaggio Phono
Foreplay 2.1
The Twins: 55 Watt Mullard 5-20 KT-88 mono-Blocks
4 Pi Speakers


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #9 on: June 15, 2015, 07:02:50 AM
Ah, what I thought was a toggle switch is actually the pot. 

The 100K resistors are where you want them.  The 10K resistors go from "In" on the pots to ground.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Bill Epstein

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Reply #10 on: June 15, 2015, 07:45:23 AM
Thanks Paul. Don't know how I confused "out" with "in" in your reply to my padding query under Legacy but there it is.

I did good work back when I was drugged, now that I'm medicated...not so much.

VPI Traveler/ZYX R50
Cinemag 3440 AH
Steve Brown Caravaggio Phono
Foreplay 2.1
The Twins: 55 Watt Mullard 5-20 KT-88 mono-Blocks
4 Pi Speakers