Speedball impressions: is something wrong?

dylanneves · 5196

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Offline dylanneves

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on: January 05, 2018, 07:17:58 PM
Hey guys, I finished the speedball a couple days ago, and at least as it is, I’m not impressed. It sounds like a downgrade in most ways, if anything. And I appreciate both solid-state and tube amps; I started with solid-state and more flat headphones before going to the amazing hd650’s and then the lively, yet distinguishing collage that is the crack.

•   Compared to my stock crack that I built a couple months ago, not modded in any sense, sound has less life, and seems a bit congested, muffled, softer (not as clear) and dry (though I am aware you lose some of that gooey viscosity that the stock crack has), yet it isn’t too accurate or punchy, strange enough, as those are perks I’ve heard touted for the speedball. Right now, strangely and scarily, my speedball crack w/ modi 2 uber sounds a lot like my independent fiio e10k. Also, the soundstage if anything seems to have narrowed. The amp now seems to heavily favor high-lows and low-mids, without giving deep lows, high-mids and highs a chance to fully take the stage. Still, you can hear the mids and highs, and they can sound pretty good. But nothing sings and resonates like the stock crack. Are these normal characteristics of the speedball? Does it take time to break in? Or perhaps my ears aren’t trained enough or there’s some mental, placebo effect stuff going on. Otherwise, I do believe there is something wrong with my kit because, given the state of it, I don’t understand the speedball hype at all.

Below are some other seemingly minor complications or concerns I have, most being pre-Speedball:
•   Buzz, very quiet, in the right ear.
•   High hum or screech, very quiet, in left ear; sometimes a similar buzz to the right ear.
•   Channel issues aren’t always present but usually are.
•   light snapping/popping (more like a “tick” sound or someone tapping the glass with their nail) sounds, only once or twice, when turned on and off (the insides of the tubes or its glass?)
•   Some hot smelling stuff (solder?) when very close to the crack? But it isn't seriously noticeable. I thought this would be normal, but the manual says otherwise to some degree. No smoke or anything else extreme.
•   Were my pcb’s maybe somehow damaged? Does flux from the solder have any real effect on the pcb in the short term? I'm aware that it may cause corrosion in the future. Some small amounts of “liquid” have spewed around joints that I may have heated for too long. Tracks all look good, and so do the contacts.

Disclaimers:
•   I have meticulously and obsessively checked all my solder joints, most of them more than three times, and have redone some potentially suspicious joints on the crack, and have redone all the joints on both speedball boards. This all took me nearly a whole day, so by no means do I believe I rushed anything. All joints are shiny, have solder enclose the entirety of the pad, create “fillets” as the manual suggests, and convex towards the end of the component being soldered. 
•   All voltages on speedball are good, same with resistance on oa and ob.
•   I was even more ocd with the component orientation. I triple checked during installations and have checked countless times after.
•   Checked voltages on crack right before starting the speedball. Everything was great. Checked resistances on crack after speedball. All readings that don’t concern the speedball are good.
•   DAC is a Schiit Modi 2 Uber, connected to a pc via usb b to a
•   Z170-A motherboard
•   Fuse is good

And a quick question: Resemblance on page 15 of speedball 1.1 does not match the final picture on the crack 1.1 manual on page 46. I assume the picture on p.15 is of crack 1.0. It is okay to proceed as per picture on page 46 of crack 1.1 manual, right? That is what I did.

Sorry for the dump of text; thank you in advance!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:54:21 PM by curlyfryneves »

Dylan Neves
------
-DT770 80 ohm (occasional hip-hop can)
-HD650 (my daily driver)
------
-Bottlehead Crack (Speedball 1.1: only the big board) [daily driver]; Schiit Modi 2 Uber
-Fiio E10K (amp/dac for dt770, current choice for solid state)


Offline gwompki

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Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 01:28:48 AM
Interesting.  This is very similar to my experience of installing the speedball about 10 days ago as well.  I posted last night in the "crack impressions" thread.  My voltages are all good, but the sound seems to favor the highs now and the low lows are gone.  I don't notice any of the noises you mentioned though.  I listened for 10 days to let my ears adjust to see if there some burn in or brain burn in would occur.

I'm trying to determine if I goofed something up or the sound of the speedball just isn't for me.  Im guessing it's the former because I, like you, also really like the sound of tubes and solid state amps. 

I will be following this thread for sure.  I'm not sure if we have the same issue but it does sound similar.



Offline Raymond P.

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Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 06:52:51 AM
Count me in. I too have similar impressions of the Speedball - i.e., don't like it as much as the base Crack. I enjoyed the base Crack so much that I was hesitant to install the Speedball, but I had the kit and was curious about it based on everything I read. For me, I miss the bass punch, and some holographic imaging is gone. The overall sound seems to have shifted somewhat towards solid state. I don't notice any change with the mids though. Still, without being able to A/B test, it's hard to say what all the differences are.

I'll stick with the Speedball a while longer and decide if I want to revert back to the base Crack.

My kit came with a Conn 12AU7 with side getter and a Philips JAN 6080WC. All my test measurements are within spec. Headphones are the Sennheiser HD650. The volume pot does have the resistor padding.


-Raymond
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 06:56:37 AM by Raymond P. »

Raymond P.


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 07:16:20 AM
The buzz and other issues before the installation of the Speedball can be indicative of solder joint issues.  The one that seems to come in for repair most often is the junction of black wires on the headphone jack.  It's really easy to think that joint is soldered but still have a loose wire.  A bad solder joint or loose wire will sound terrible, and it might not act up until you go back into the amp to do modifications.

The Speedball itself reduces the distortion produced by the 12AU7 substantially.  A lot of folks enjoy the tubey sound of resistor loaded triodes, but the constant current source load offers a more honest and revealing presentation of the source material.  The differences in low frequency response are likely reduced bass harmonics (distortion) that you are hearing.   I have heard this referred to as "Phantom Bass" on other forums, and I would suggest using the Speedball for a month or two, then putting back the 22K plate load resistors to check on your impressions.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Raymond P.

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Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 07:39:06 AM
The buzz and other issues before the installation of the Speedball can be indicative of solder joint issues.  The one that seems to come in for repair most often is the junction of black wires on the headphone jack.  It's really easy to think that joint is soldered but still have a loose wire.  A bad solder joint or loose wire will sound terrible, and it might not act up until you go back into the amp to do modifications.

The Speedball itself reduces the distortion produced by the 12AU7 substantially.  A lot of folks enjoy the tubey sound of resistor loaded triodes, but the constant current source load offers a more honest and revealing presentation of the source material.  The differences in low frequency response are likely reduced bass harmonics (distortion) that you are hearing.   I have heard this referred to as "Phantom Bass" on other forums, and I would suggest using the Speedball for a month or two, then putting back the 22K plate load resistors to check on your impressions.


PB, just to double check, we could replace the smaller Speedball board with the load resistors, but leave the larger board in?


Thx,
Raymond

Raymond P.


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 10:07:08 AM
Yes.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline dylanneves

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Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 03:13:00 PM
Alright, so I inspected all my black wire joints, wiggled them around, and used the chopstick method. I did end up readjusting some of the minimal excess leads so they are farther apart, which may have helped a tiny bit.  But alas, there seems to be no questionable joints. Perhaps it concerns my tubes? Oh well, it's minor and not a constant issue, and I can only somewhat notice it when idle, so I can live with it.

By the way PB, you mentioned on gwompki's thread that you can put back in the 22.1k resistors in place of the small Speedball board to bring back the distortion of the 12AU7. Which has me curious: what exactly does the larger board do? Does it also reduce distortion, but for the 6080, and what effects would that have theoretically on the sound? I'm quite intrigued by the modularity and cooperation of these boards with the overall circuit and its potential effects on the sound it puts out.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 03:17:59 PM by curlyfryneves »

Dylan Neves
------
-DT770 80 ohm (occasional hip-hop can)
-HD650 (my daily driver)
------
-Bottlehead Crack (Speedball 1.1: only the big board) [daily driver]; Schiit Modi 2 Uber
-Fiio E10K (amp/dac for dt770, current choice for solid state)


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 04:38:07 AM
The big board does indeed reduce the distortion of the output stage, but not as drastically as the small board does up front.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 06:16:42 AM
And remember that this was classified information for 50 years, up until 2003. ?!?!?!

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/b200361.pdf

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline gwompki

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Reply #9 on: January 09, 2018, 02:48:43 PM
Hey guys, I just updated my thread with impressions after I removed the smaller PCB.  For me it definitely helped and is sounding great, but I have to listen at slightly higher volumes to get that magic sound I was used to with the non-speedball.   I don't want to cross-post , so take a look over there if you want more details. 



Offline dylanneves

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Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 05:37:39 PM
Hmm, confidential you say? An interesting little piece of history, Doc.

Gwompki: to be honest, it's when I installed the smaller board that I started to get skeptical of the sound changes. I went ahead and listened to the small board halfway through building the whole kit, and most of the concerns I posted earlier seem to stem from that board. So I feel like I'm in a similar boat to you, gwompki. I'll definitely check your thread, thanks for the referral!

Dylan Neves
------
-DT770 80 ohm (occasional hip-hop can)
-HD650 (my daily driver)
------
-Bottlehead Crack (Speedball 1.1: only the big board) [daily driver]; Schiit Modi 2 Uber
-Fiio E10K (amp/dac for dt770, current choice for solid state)


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 06:48:07 PM
Basically you guys like the distortion of a resistor loaded triode at low signal levels vs. the lower distortion of an active loaded triode at the same low levels. That's the difference you are hearing. In more markety terms, you like "the warm tube sound". A lot of people like Crack for that, particularly since a lot of headphones (and sources for that matter) tend to be on the lean side lower mid and bass-wise. The bass is more dynamic with an active load and goes deeper cleanly. There is more bass boom - particularly in the mid-upper bass region - with the stock setup. That can give one the impression of more bass overall.

There was a mention of setting the volume knob higher with the stock setup. That makes perfect sense as another benefit of the active load is increased gain, typically around 3-4dB.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline gwompki

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Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 04:45:34 AM
Thanks Doc.  It is sounding really great now as my ears adjust. 




Offline dylanneves

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Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 11:57:56 PM
That sounds about right. I think it's also because I prefer the different sound signature of the stock Crack, as it contrasts yet compliments well with my more solid state mobo and fiio setup. I think I'll remove the smaller board and replace the 22.1k resistors within the next week or so as gwompki has; my impressions haven't gotten that much better of the full-on Speedball, but I am starting to notice some of the nuances better. I'll see how I like that and will be sure to update my impressions for you forum-goers. I may stick with that, or revert back to stock. We shall see. Thanks for all your help, guys!

Dylan Neves
------
-DT770 80 ohm (occasional hip-hop can)
-HD650 (my daily driver)
------
-Bottlehead Crack (Speedball 1.1: only the big board) [daily driver]; Schiit Modi 2 Uber
-Fiio E10K (amp/dac for dt770, current choice for solid state)


Offline dylanneves

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Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 11:22:07 AM
Hey guys, so I decided to put back in the 22.1k resistors. But a problem for me was that when I installed the speedball, I accidentally read "clip close to the terminal" as close to the component. In retrospect, I would've just heated the components out. But I was tired and tried my best to abide the instructions. When I went to put them back in, I managed to completely botch one of them, as the lead was pretty much gone on one side when I started and it broke off during my attempts to reinstall; the other resistor, however, is installed. So I am down one 22.1K resistor. Is there a potential improv solution, seeing how cheap these are? If not, can I get any 22.1K 1/4W resistor from an electronics store or online, or should I contact replacement parts?

Dylan Neves
------
-DT770 80 ohm (occasional hip-hop can)
-HD650 (my daily driver)
------
-Bottlehead Crack (Speedball 1.1: only the big board) [daily driver]; Schiit Modi 2 Uber
-Fiio E10K (amp/dac for dt770, current choice for solid state)