A DIY turntable?

[NightPhotographer]

Is there anybody else out there who like me thinks Doc should release a fantastic DIY turntable?
Now that people have recognized what a vinyl has to offer is a good opportunity to resurrect one of those great idler drive classics like Lenco L75 or Garrad 301 from oblivion and let people realize what real analogue sound is. They are not difficult to build especially with great user manuals that Doc is used to provide and they have extreme speed stability and consistency (one thing that current belt driven turntables cannot match). There are people who are selling these turntables on ebay as refurbished without actually knowing what they are talking about. I am pretty sure Doc can offer way better options at reasonable price which will pique audiophiles' interest.

[xcortes]

15 yrs ago I was looking for a tt kit. Googled directed me to one called the bix. I called and spoked to a nice lady named Eileen. Didn’t get the bix but many many amp kits, built preamps, taoes and friends.

Garrard 301 from oblivion? 12 years ago i found a nos one. Disassembled it, greased and oiled it and is the longest surviving piece of audio in my system.

[Doc B.]

Speed stability generally requires mass. Mass tends to cost money. Interesting that Xavier mentions the Bix. We didn't make it, we just retailed it. Great looking belt driven table that sounded quite nice. Speed drift was a problem, as was spares availability.

This is one of those ideas that tends to suffer from price creep, like the DAC we did. We might set out to make a $500 turntable but probably find out that, to make it work in a way I would be satisfied with, it would have to be priced at more like $1500. I will give this some thought.

[galyons]

Every turntable that I have purchased new came as a "kit".  I had to assemble the various parts: plinth, bearing, platter, arm, motor drive assembly and belt(s).  The vast majority of the cost, or price, of a quality TT is in the manufacture of the various components.  The successful, (surviving),  TT manufacturers have developed a production critical mass that allows for high fixed production costs to be spread over many units.  The assembly labor cost is, for the most part, minimal. I just do not see a reasonable gross margin in the DIY TT idea.

Of course, as in all things, YMMV!

Cheers,
Geary

[aragorn723]

There are some really nice low cost options if you are looking for a turntable.  I recently got a Uturn Audio orbit with a Grado Black cartridge, and a cue arm for about $300 including shipping.  So far i've listened to 4 or 5 records, and have been very pleased with the level of detail.  It's almost a no-brainer.  The neat thing about Uturn is that you can pick the color of your plinth and choose a cart (There's a cheap Audio Technica, the Grado Black, Ortofon 2M Red, and Ortofon 2M Blue).  Also, you can pick the standard platter, or go with acrylic.  I have also heard some Rega turntables (Rega P2, Planar 1), and the Uturn definitely beats them in terms of performance.  The Planar 1 I heard at a local shop also had flatness issues with the platter which was very noticeable to the naked eye. 

Dave

[NightPhotographer]

@ Doc
Doc, there is a guy in Netherlands who sells L75 with new top plate and plinth for 3000 euros!!! From my understanding, he sells like crazy and "his turntable" which infact is Lenco L75 has been praised by all audiophile communities. I was very close to buy one but it occurred to me you could do way better so I started this topic. If yours is going to cost 1500$ I'm pretty sure it would be a big success. Right now, people are selling refurbished Garrad 301, Lenco L75, or Thorens 124 at crazy high prices since audiophiles started to realize the benefits of idler drive turntables. What most of them do is relubricate and put it inside a new plinth !! Please do it. I'll get the first one.

[Leland Hankins]

There has been a large following of the Lenco 70,75, and 78 for years, great sounding turntable.  I have been rebuilding them and tonearms for 30 years or more, but I have not listened to a turntable or any serious music since 2012/13.  I believe that I still have three L75's and parts in the basement.

[NightPhotographer]

@ galyons

I don't disagree but my point is there are some inexpensive idler drive turntables which are really really good but they are not in production anymore. A belt drive turntable which is capable of having the "idler slam" will be 7000+. An idler drive turntable needs a bit more careful approach than belt drive turntables (I know Linn chassis suspension alignment is complex too but in general) since they use high torque motors which require a good suspended cradle to minimize the vibration. Besides, the shaft alignment is also important. A comprehensive instruction which Doc is known to provide with his products will help everybody overcome the moderate assembly complexity of these turntables. I am a mechanical engineer so, I can handle these difficulties if I just get the platter, motor and idler wheel of a Lenco L75 or L78 for instance and start building my own but I have no idea how good (or bad in this case) that ancient motor that I'll get via ebay would be but I can buy in confidence if it comes from Doc. Also no idea about sonic characteristics of materials so again choosing something as the plinth would be a hit and miss. Even if I trust the internet and choose a material (a material which is known to be sonically dead is Corian), nobody will sell it to me in the size suitable for a plinth, I need to buy it in the kitchen table sizes! So, it makes it impractical for me as an individual to start building my own. This wouldn't be an issue for Doc.
I believe a person with the experience of Doc could offer an idler drive kit comprising parts from classics like Lenco, Garrad, or Thorens at a reasonable price which is capable of beating lots of modern 7000+belt drive turntables.

[Doc B.]

I gave an idler turntable to Richard Riley a few years ago. I think it might have been a Rek-O-Kut? Anyway he put it in a plinth made of HDPE that worked very well, after I had related a story someone had told me about making an entire turntable platter and plinth out of UHMW PE that was really dead.

A trick I learned years ago from John Tucker is to go to a cabinet shop that uses Corian and ask to buy a sink cutout.

[galyons]

I have had very good luck with quartz counter top material for plinths. I was imspressed with the quiet background to my belt driven idler TD124.  I built a VPI TNT plinth with a rosewood top, quartz center and acrylic bottom.  I learned quite a bit about forcing disparate materials into a unified mass.  It was very nice looking, (French polished to rosewood), sounded really good. It was not as warm as the all acrylic plinth. Bass was better defined and micro detailing was improved. I plan a redo having the pieces machined for a better fit and finish.

Vinyl reproduction really takes on the characteristics of the materials used.

Cheers,
Geary

[NightPhotographer]

@ Doc
Thanks Doc, sink cut out might be a good idea but I hope you come up with a kit soon 

[4krow]

 I am astonished at the success that some of the builders have with a turntable. In some cases, exquisite work and beauty. If their accuracy in building is as good as the product, then it is certainly an accomplishment to be proud of.
 I am unfamiliar with rim drive turntables, except the cheap lousy ones that I saw as a kid. I would like to know more about them.

[NightPhotographer]

@ 4krow

I've been totally ignoring rim drive due to the rumble issue associated to it till I heard one of these rebuilt Garrad301. None of my belt drive had such strong, deep, and defined bass and I had high mass bet drive turntables. It's very cheap to get the components and with a little knowledge of how the rim drive works, the infamous rumble issue could easily be solved by a good design. Personally, I think this could be a very successful Bottlehead project with Doc's experience in DIY projects taken into account.

[4krow]

 I realize that alignment would be very important. I am also thinking that the composition of the idler wheel would be equally important. It would be best if the drive were made for one speed only, as changing speeds could likely have issues of it's own, concerning the mechanism used.

[Paul Joppa]

Re: multiple speeds - I have a Rek-O-Kut turntable, which has two idler wheels contacting different portions of the motor shaft (different diameters) for 45 and 33 RPM. The mechanical switching mechanism has a center spot where neither idler contacts anything, so they do not develop an indentation. Simple and reliable.

(I'm using a classic Stanton 500 spherical DJ cart, which is OK, but the combo has surprising solidity and authority in the bass. Old-school ESS arm, original flimsy wood box, I don't think it rises to the level of a "plinth"! It's in a deliberately vintage system, not my main system.)

FWIW, at one time (inspired by Mikey Paschetto) we looked into a 3-phase power supply for Papst motors - I'd love to develop such a thing, with perhaps three SE 2A3s! But it didn't look feasible and didn't go anywhere at the time. The development effort would require a LOT of customers to pay off!