Staining the wood base/Hammerite Paint questions

[Blue]

Hi Everyone,

I received my Crack kit in the mail a few days ago, and I'm preparing to put it together.
I've been doing quite a lot of googling on how to put it all together right.
The one thing that I'm still unsure about is the staining process for the wood base.

I'm using this link as my reference  for my desired look:
(okay I cant post links here, so the link comes from Koenig's DIY website. I think it's pretty popular here)

I've never really worked with wood before, so I thought I'd do a lot of googling to figure it out.
The problem is: there's simply too many ways to do everything, and there are a lot of assumed steps in between that I don't know much about.

First of all, I bought this powder stain:
(cant Post link, but it is a Clou powder wood stain, dark walnut colour #168)

My thought process is as following:
1.) Build the wood base, and glue it together.
2.) Wet the wood first, then after drying sand the wood base first with 120 grit or so, then eventually with 180/220.
3.) After cleaning the wood dust off, then I can start applying the powdered stain.
     I am assuming I will need to use multiple coats. However, I am not sure If I need to sand in-between coats.
     Also, how long should I wait to apply the next coat? 24 hours?
     If I have any remaining powder stain left after applying the first layer, can I save it for the next few hours/days for the next coat?
4.) After, I want to apply some varnish to make it looks glossy. And I guess I need to apply multiple coats here as well.
     After each coat I believe I need to do some light sanding in between, is that correct? Do I also need to wait 24 hours in between?
     I'm guessing that depends on the type of varnish though

Now for painting the metal chassis and transformer bell, I have bought a  Hammerite direct to rust metal spray with hammered black finish.
The instructions on the can say to spray each layer after 15 minute intervals. However, I've seen many people on these forums and on other sites
do each coat after either 2.5 minutes or after 30 minutes. (some hours in between). Is there a rule for this on when to do what?

My chassis appears to have no gunk or what not on it. Would it be okay to just clean it with a metal cleaner and then go ahead and apply the hammerite paint to it (same question for the bell)?
Or do I need to sand the chassis and bell as well before applying the paint?

Thanks for reading and I hope I was clear enough in my questions.
Looking forward to putting it all together.

[Paul Birkeland]

I have never used powdered stain, so I can't comment on that.  The only product that I've seen work consistently on the alder is aniline dye. In the absence of recommendations here, always default to following the instructions of the stain manufacturer.

For the chassis plate, clean it with a lint free cloth and a fast evaporating solvent (alcohol, acetone, etc).  When the solvent has flashed off, then spray the finish on.  I strongly recommend against multiple coats; one layer will end up looking the best.

The transformer cover usually is lightly oiled so that it doesn't rust.  The same solvent you used to clean the chassis plate should take the oil off, but it might take a few applications. 

[Doc B.]

Powdered stain and analine dye are basically the same thing. Presumably there are mixing instructions with the powder. If you are given a choice, mix the powder with water, not alcohol. You can bottle the stain after you mix it and it will keep fine. I still have bottles that I bought many years ago.

Don't wet the wood before sanding. Don't use 120 grit, that's too coarse. Use 220. Some people like to use a prestain sealer to even the stain finish. I have not found that to be necessary on the alder. The stain will go on in one coat if you are careful to put it on evenly, or two coats applied close together if necessary. Let it dry for a day before putting on the clear finish. Do not sand the stained wood it before you apply varnish, just apply your first coat of clear right on top and let it dry. Then sand lightly with 320 grit and apply another coat. Repeat as many times as you want to build coats. I find that spray finishes usually end up smoother, but rattle can varnish takes quite a few coats to build. Oil based clear finish will pop the grain and usually look more impressive with a dark stain than the water based clear finishes.

[fromnowon]

I had some Minwax Natural stain and wood conditioner leftover from other projects so I decided to try that.  I think it looks good on Alder and posted a picture below.  Alder seems to be a soft wood so I figured the conditioner might help the stain soak in more evenly.  I tested with and without conditioner on the inside of the box and thought "with" looked slightly deeper in color so I went with it.
This picture is without any polyurethane - just stain.
Actually, I think this Alder has surprisingly nice grain in it if you bring it out a little!
 

[Blue]

Blackplate thanks for the comments on the chassis and bell. I'll give a single coat a try first and see how it looks.
If I think it needs more, I'll go for the second coat after 15 minute intervals like the can instructions say.

Doc thanks for the tips with the sanding and staining of the wood. I'll take your advice with it all. I bought 3 bags of the stain, so I'll mix it all together with water and save the rest in a bottle.
Good to know that not sanding in between staining coats is the way to go, as I found almost 50/50 answers on that.
I think I go and buy a oil based clear finish for the base. I like the idea of having it pop more out especially since I went for a dark wood stain.

fromnowon your base looks really good. However I'm definitely going for the very dark look. I'll look into wood conditioner as well though. I plan on some other wood based projects, and more ideas the better.

[ALL212]

I just used powdered die for the first time and it came out very nice.  I used a medium color on some DQ-10 walnut side boards I've had for some time (now to sell them!).  I also used a very dark color on an alder base for the Crack-a-two-a and with the silver plate that came out very nice.  A bit too dark to show the grain but that combination was great.

Sand down to near perfection with at least 220.  Then do wet it and allow that to dry, then resand with 220 or higher.  This will allow the grain to pull up and be sanded back down before you apply the die.

My brother uses die all the time and told me that if it appears too dark you can go back over it with a wet cloth to thin back the color.  That I've not tried yet.

My surprise was that for the final finish I used tung oil, final result was amazing!

My thought process is as following:
1.) Build the wood base, and glue it together.
     a)   yes
2.) Wet the wood first, then after drying sand the wood base first with 120 grit or so, then eventually with 180/220.
     a)   No need to wet on initial sanding - go to 220, wet, allow to dry and then go 220 or higher one more time.
3.) After cleaning the wood dust off, then I can start applying the powdered stain.
     I am assuming I will need to use multiple coats. However, I am not sure If I need to sand in-between coats.
     Also, how long should I wait to apply the next coat? 24 hours?
            a)     I used one coat of the die
     If I have any remaining powder stain left after applying the first layer, can I save it for the next few hours/days for the next coat?
             a)    Once mixed I think you can save this for eternity.
4.) After, I want to apply some varnish to make it looks glossy. And I guess I need to apply multiple coats here as well.
     After each coat I believe I need to do some light sanding in between, is that correct? Do I also need to wait 24 hours in between?
      a)    Just follow the directions on whatever you decide to go with.   

     I'm guessing that depends on the type of varnish though

Attachments are of the DQ-10 sides,  died with Medium something... (I don't remember) and then about 10 or 12 thin coats of tung oil.

[Blue]

Thanks for the additional tips ALL212!
Those side boards with the tung oil look absolutely gorgeous!
I may have to get some test pieces of wood and try that out myself.
So many ideas flowing now haha

[ALL212]

I used Dark Oak on this alder box and it is dark but it made the top plate pop.

I also had Colonial maple and Medium Walnut.  The cool thing is you can mix the powders to your own custom colors. 

I think the walnut DQ-10 sides were died colonial maple but I'm not sure. 

[rockdrummer]

I used Varathane fast drying stain in Ebony. I love the dark color. The base needed little prep, just a little touch with 220 paper, then I think I used a Zinsser shellac, IIRC.

The photos aren't great, but you get the idea.

Ben

[ALL212]

This one is Colonial Maple die in a special cut of cherry.  Nothing extra applied other than tung oil - maybe a dozen or more layers.

The fine gentleman that cut this forgot to calc in the kerf so I've got some corner work to do yet.

[Blue]

I really liked looking at everyone's designs, and it gave me some good ideas for the next project!
I'm already thinking of buying a second crack: one for my stereo setup, and one for my computer.

I've completed my crack over the last week (Thanks to Caucasian Blackplate for the help in debugging the speedball issue!)
I made lots of mistakes in the staining and varnish process. But the imperfections I can live with, and it's fun to know That I did it.

I've included two pictures. The stain turned out darker than I hoped. Turned much darker after I applied the varnish. But I still like it.
It was really fun to build the crack, would definitely recommend it to anyone!

[CAPT Deadpool]

Can anyone provide a link or store name and product brand recommendation for buying analine dye?  I'm in Maryland.  I'd prefer to find it locally if I can, but will order online if necessary.

[Paul Birkeland]

Can anyone provide a link or store name and product brand recommendation for buying analine dye?  I'm in Maryland.  I'd prefer to find it locally if I can, but will order online if necessary.

See here:

https://www.woodcraft.com/stores/rockville