PSA - Don't forget to let your paint cure longer when it's cold

oguinn · 1234

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Offline oguinn

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I waited the 48 hours suggested by Rustoleum to clear coat my chokes, but it's been a little cooler out than typical and it seems like the last layer of paint hadn't set yet. Tragedy struck on one of the chokes and the paint buckled. Looks like I'll be starting over.

Do yourselves a favor and let your paint cure longer than you think is necessary.

Jameson O'Guinn

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Main System: Schiit Bifrost MB, Rega Planar 6 with Exact cartridge, Eros 2, BeePre, Kaiju/Stereomour II, Jagers, Mainline

Desktop System: Crack with Speedball


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1 on: October 24, 2019, 05:50:04 AM
I recommend black lacquer for these.  Once dried, the lacquer will be way harder than enamel.  If do you end up scratching it, you can tape off the choke and just spray right over the old lacquer with new lacquer and the two will blend together.  If the lacquer is allowed to sit at room temperature, usually an overnight cure is adequate and I will rubberband a white painters' rag over what I have sprayed to give it some extra protection during assembly 

Enamel paints can't be recoated without waiting a very long time and they take forever to adequately cure.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline caffeinator

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Reply #2 on: October 24, 2019, 05:57:14 AM
Hi there,

Were you clear-coating over paint you'd applied previously? If so, it's a common problem with recoating using enamel spray paints; I've encountered it before, though not to the degree it appears in your photo.

In spite of label instructions, I've found that recoating seems to work best within a short time (about 15 minutes or less, which is often per the label), or not until at least a couple of weeks later (which is also often per the label in many cases). If memory serves, I have tried topcoating with clear (same brand, same type of paint, per label instructions) within the recoat time, and experienced a 'wrinkle finish' effect, though not quite as pronounced as yours appears. Similar, though - as if the topcoat has somehow expanded and wrinkled to give the excess someplace to go. This has even happened to me long after parts have been dry.

Temperature is a factor, of course, but I've found recoating to be tricky business. I've pretty much settled on only recoating during that 15 minute window when using enamel, and not at all after that.

Also, I have used lacquer, and it does indeed harden quite a bit. In fact, I had some top plates I wanted to give a 'piano black' finish, and laid down a few coats of black plus clear over a primer base. After the parts were dry to handling, I had to pack them up for a move, and so wrapped them in masking paper and boxed them up. About a year later, I unpacked them, only to discover that the paint had been soft enough (and thick enough, I supposed) to have deformed a little bit where the masking paper had been folded, leaving impressions in the otherwise deep, glossy finish. I decided I needed to start over, whereupon I discovered that coating was unbelievably hard and tough - it took quite a bit time and effort with a belt sander to remove it.



Offline oguinn

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Reply #3 on: October 24, 2019, 06:02:45 AM
Sounds like lacquer is the way to go. I'm really, really not looking forward to stripping this down. Earlier this year I removed a couple bad coats of paint I had someone else do from the chokes on a Stereomour. I used a wire wheel on a Dremel and it took forever. I might just try sandpaper this time. Sandpaper and crying.

To answer your question, caffeinator, I followed the same process I had on the transformer bells previously: hit them with a couple coats of flat black enamel within a few minutes of each other, let dry for a couple days, come back and hit them with a couple coats of clear within a few minutes of each other. It worked fine last time. This time... well, you can see for yourself.

Jameson O'Guinn

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Main System: Schiit Bifrost MB, Rega Planar 6 with Exact cartridge, Eros 2, BeePre, Kaiju/Stereomour II, Jagers, Mainline

Desktop System: Crack with Speedball


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #4 on: October 24, 2019, 07:52:59 AM
Try acetone and a rag to remove the paint. Since it hasn't cured for that long it will probably come off pretty easy. Work in a very well ventilated area (like outside) and wear latex rubber gloves (the acetone will destroy synthetic gloves like nitrile or PVC). Since the finish isn't messed up all over it makes me wonder if there was some contamination under the bad spots. Acetone is also a really good solvent for paint prep, removing oils that might be in the pores of the metal.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline oguinn

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Reply #5 on: October 24, 2019, 09:51:39 AM
Thanks, Doc. I went and bought some acetone and gloves. I dissolved and sanded the paint off the bell and top part. I'll see about giving it a couple days to cure and then tape the still-painted parts off and try again. Worse case scenario it looks bad and I have to strip the entire thing, best case scenario it looks fine and I can move on with my life.

Jameson O'Guinn

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Main System: Schiit Bifrost MB, Rega Planar 6 with Exact cartridge, Eros 2, BeePre, Kaiju/Stereomour II, Jagers, Mainline

Desktop System: Crack with Speedball


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #6 on: October 24, 2019, 10:00:44 AM
There's always plasti-dip!

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline oguinn

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Reply #7 on: October 24, 2019, 10:03:00 AM
Between this and a having to re-do a less-than-stellar powder coating job (just not a great color this time), I'm feeling like the Kaiju is cursed.

Jameson O'Guinn

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Main System: Schiit Bifrost MB, Rega Planar 6 with Exact cartridge, Eros 2, BeePre, Kaiju/Stereomour II, Jagers, Mainline

Desktop System: Crack with Speedball


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #8 on: October 24, 2019, 10:47:01 AM
There's always plasti-dip!

Been there, done that. Just run the other way. Truth is it's pretty hard to beat 2K color coat topped with 2K clear coat. But we're talking about $60 worth of rattle cans. I have been using the ceramic engine paints made by VHT and Duplicolor for a few projects. They aren't perfect but they are much cheaper than 2K, can be baked at about 200F and are fairly durable after that. They also buff out nicely.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #9 on: October 24, 2019, 02:07:43 PM
Yeah, I'm in love with the Eastwood 2K spray cans.  They are $25 each, but so worth it. 

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline EricS

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Reply #10 on: October 26, 2019, 03:38:33 AM
Sorry to see that you're having trouble - I've run into this as well when using enamel paints.  What I've done in the past that works well, especially for smaller parts like this, is to bring the painted part into the house after it's had a few hours to do its major outgassing.  I have a small 10w hallogen desk lamp that is mounted on an adjustable arm.  I put the part under the lamp, give it about 12-18" of clearance to the lamp and turn it on let it sit for about 24 hours.   It will still give off a bit of a smell, but it will be dried and mostly cured way more quickly. 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 03:53:22 AM by EricS »

Eric

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There are ALWAYS User Serviceable Parts Inside!


Offline oguinn

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Reply #11 on: October 26, 2019, 04:08:16 AM
That’s a good idea too. I stripped half of the choke the other day and have a forced waiting period since it’s raining today.

Jameson O'Guinn

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Main System: Schiit Bifrost MB, Rega Planar 6 with Exact cartridge, Eros 2, BeePre, Kaiju/Stereomour II, Jagers, Mainline

Desktop System: Crack with Speedball


Offline EricS

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Reply #12 on: October 26, 2019, 04:52:43 AM
For stripping pretty much anything that comes out of a rattle can, a 50/50 mix of acetone and lacquer thinner works pretty effectively with a mild abrasive like a piece of steel wool.  You have to work quickly because this stuff will evaporate away pretty quickly, too.  I learned this from restoring antique wooden radios.

I've never heard of this 2k ceramic stuff, just did a quick search and found some - looks pretty interesting!  How does this compare in costs/durability to powder coating?  It doesn't seem right to visit my local powder coating guy and then tell him no because his price is too high...
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 02:04:34 PM by EricS »

Eric

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There are ALWAYS User Serviceable Parts Inside!


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #13 on: October 26, 2019, 06:14:06 AM
The 2K stuff is a good choice for parts that you can't cure in an oven, or for something that's large enough that the powder coating charge will be expensive. 

Once you pop the button on the can, you don't have a whole lot of time to use it up, so blowing $25 to paint a couple of chokes isn't such a good deal, but if you have a lot of pieces lined up, then it makes more sense.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Deluk

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Reply #14 on: October 28, 2019, 04:30:28 AM
For the transformer cover on my Crack I found a small tin of dark chestnut enamel and brushed on a couple of coats. With a good brush it went on nice and thick. Left for a couple of days, indoors of course, and then gave it a good rub down with a fine compound. Looks good and works well with the rosewood stain that I used. A coupe of years now and it still looks like "new". Only a very small tin needed, check your local model shop. Inexpensive.