News: Trouble logging in? Log in from the login page.
August 03, 2020, 02:39:17 AM

Author Topic: volume won't go down all the way (Bee Quiet)  (Read 439 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kip.duff

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
volume won't go down all the way (Bee Quiet)
« on: December 26, 2019, 04:28:28 PM »
Been using the BeePre for about a year and half.  Using NOS 6A3s- all tests on completion of build were spot on.  About two months ago, some rumbles and pops in my hifi- but then started to work again.  But seems to have sound quality loss- I believe both channels.  This is the unfortunate thing about sound quality issues where the defective component doesn't fail completely- could be anywhere in your entire system.  Sometimes preferable when a component just stops working- easier to narrow down and troubleshoot.

Just finished my Eros 2 and was trying out- installed Lundahl LL9226 SUTs 1:10 (lotsa gain with my 0.5mV MC cart- 1:5 might be better).  I had these laying about and will probably replace them with some Sowters or Cinemags.  Was using Analogue Productions "Ultimate Analogue Test LP" and it has some pretty loud test passages.  I noticed that when I turn both coarse and fine gain knobs all the way counter clockwise, I still have sound coming thru- roughly 30% sound still coming thru.

I haven't started to troubleshoot this volume thing yet- just discovered it.  I'm really hoping that when I find and solve the problem, it will also deal with my perceived tone quality loss.  My initial thought were that problems in the Bee Quiet volume control circuits wouldn't affect tone quality too much- and would be in one channel only.

Anyone seen this?



Thanks, Kip....... 
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 05:13:05 PM by kip.duff »
VPI Classic Signature turntable with ADS and Lyra Skala cartridge.  Eros 2.  Audio Note DAC 2.1 Signature.  BeePre with BeeQuiet and Paramount 1.1 monoblocs into A7 VOTTs or Nagoaka folded horns.

Offline Paul Birkeland

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13202
Re: volume won't go down all the way (Bee Quiet)
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2019, 05:12:11 AM »
The maximum attenuation of the BeeQuiet is -52.5dB, and with the insertion loss of the controls it's more like -56dB.  There is no actual mute setting.

Can you provide all of the details of your entire system?  What is your cartridge, amplifier, and speakers?  It may be that you have way too much gain in your system and -56dB of source attenuation just isn't enough!

When you use the BeeQuiet controls, do they work as expected?  Do you get big steps in volume on the coarse setting and smaller steps on the fine setting?

I would also check that you don't have your LL9226s setup for a 1:20 ratio, which would create a similar problem on its own.

-PB
Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man

Offline kip.duff

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
Re: volume won't go down all the way (Bee Quiet)
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2019, 02:52:12 PM »
The maximum attenuation of the BeeQuiet is -52.5dB, and with the insertion loss of the controls it's more like -56dB.  There is no actual mute setting.

Can you provide all of the details of your entire system?  What is your cartridge, amplifier, and speakers?  It may be that you have way too much gain in your system and -56dB of source attenuation just isn't enough!

When you use the BeeQuiet controls, do they work as expected?  Do you get big steps in volume on the coarse setting and smaller steps on the fine setting?

I would also check that you don't have your LL9226s setup for a 1:20 ratio, which would create a similar problem on its own.

-PB


*OK- so there is probably nothing wrong with the Bee Quiet attenuation.  Good news.

*VPI Classic Signature with Lyra Skala cartridge (0.5mV and 5.5 Ohms) > Eros 2 > BeePre with RCA 6A3s > Paramount 1.1 with Psvane TII 300Bs > Altec Voice of the Theater.

*Yes- never had any hint of this with other sources.  Knobs usually between 50% and 100% volume until this.  And other sources are completely silent way before knobs are turned all the way down.

*Bee Quiet controls work fine.

*SUT ratio accidently at 1:20- not 1:10.  This would be a perfect explanation for my gain and attenuation symptoms.  It's hard for me to believe that I followed the instructions wrong.  But there is a bit of confusion with the Lundahl docs I have so that will be the first area that I dig into.  Or I may go straight to a Cinemag or Sowter which was my intention all along.  The Lundahls may not be as well resistant to hum.



 The above discussion does not touch on the other issue I have of sound quality in my system- and I am still suspicious of the BeePre.  I think the best thing will be to do the resistance and voltage checks in the manual and swap some tubes- assuming I don't find the culprit in another component.  I can also A - B test against my old Audio Research SP-9 preamp.  Or send to you guys.

Thanks so much for response- got me on the right path.
VPI Classic Signature turntable with ADS and Lyra Skala cartridge.  Eros 2.  Audio Note DAC 2.1 Signature.  BeePre with BeeQuiet and Paramount 1.1 monoblocs into A7 VOTTs or Nagoaka folded horns.

Offline Paul Birkeland

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13202
Re: volume won't go down all the way (Bee Quiet)
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2019, 03:08:05 PM »
But there is a bit of confusion with the Lundahl docs I have
Yes, I've been there!
Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man

Offline kip.duff

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
Re: volume won't go down all the way (Bee Quiet)
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2020, 05:46:30 AM »
I want to update this thread.

When I set up my new/used VPI rig, there were a lot of new variables.  I was also using the Eros 2 for first time.  So I was wrastling (that's right- not wrestling!) with a lot of tigers at once.  Within a month, I had put out many fires and things have stabilized pretty nice.

Lesson: because we buy and install any number of different components from front ends to speakers, compatibility/synergy is HUGE- and probably outweighs whatever degree of excellence any individual components might have.  An interesting example of other extreme is Sonos Play 5 streaming device- everything in one box- and works quite nice.

I am still occasionally getting cut-out of one channel.  By swapping R and L channel cables, I believe I have isolated the problem to left channel of BeePre.  Problem is, within several minutes, fixes itself.  Eventually, I will get more specifics on this gremlin and post.

The Lyra Skala > VPI Classic 3 Signature > Eros 2 (w Souter 1:10s and V-Caps) > BeePre > Paramount 1.1s (w V-Caps) > Altec A7 VOTTs with MBGO caped stock Xovers setup is kinda double edge sword.  Mid highs thru the Altec horns gets a little crazy depending on source material.  Gonna raise the crosovers to 800 or 1200 Hz- I have Werner Jagusch custom crossovers with autoformers arriving soon.  I believe I will be able to switch Xover frequencies and between 8 and 16 Ohm impedance if necessary.  With music streaming (which I do a lot), the horns aren't as bad.  Am looking forward to completing build of ANK DAC 2.1 kit. 
VPI Classic Signature turntable with ADS and Lyra Skala cartridge.  Eros 2.  Audio Note DAC 2.1 Signature.  BeePre with BeeQuiet and Paramount 1.1 monoblocs into A7 VOTTs or Nagoaka folded horns.

Offline Paul Birkeland

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13202
Re: volume won't go down all the way (Bee Quiet)
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2020, 05:53:47 AM »
A channel cutting out is usually a solder joint. 

I just repaired a BeePre this weekend and the owner had a similar complaint.  One of the connections on one tube socket was well wrapped but not soldered.  That wire had been sitting that way for so long that a little corrosion had built up and started to disrupt the connection.
Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man