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April 23, 2021, 08:23:24 AM

Author Topic: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values (FIXED)  (Read 308 times)

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Online Paul Joppa

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2021, 07:07:56 PM »
Yeah, they are in the right proportion and both are too high.

I think the 2N2222 collector is not connected to the EF86 cathode (pin 3 on the tube socket).
Paul Joppa

Offline Lowercase

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2021, 07:42:06 PM »
Just taking a look and the connections from the EF86 pin 3 to the C4S board all look solid, I have some close ups in the gallery below too. The 2N2222 appears to have good joints too including the collector, but will reflow tomorrow just to be sure. Will also take another test just to be sure I didn't mess that up the first time. Since the RKA/B are correct ratio does that point to the transistors being the most likely culprit or some other connection in the line?

https://imgur.com/a/PANgrsL

Thanks again for all the help!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 08:01:24 PM by Lowercase »

Online Paul Joppa

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2021, 08:01:21 PM »
Try measuring the resistance between tube pin 3 and the 2N2222 collector - and any points in between that might be accessible. A joint that looks good is not always a joint that conducts electricity ...

I assume the EF86s have glowing cathodes, by the way - if the tube is not functioning you'll have the same symptoms.
Paul Joppa

Offline Lowercase

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2021, 08:06:02 PM »
Will do tomorrow and report back.

The EF86s are super faint, a small red dot in the middle. More than I would have expected them to be honestly. Would the prior resistor mess up have caused them to go bad? Especially since both sides are practically mirrored readings? When I did the initial glow test though they also looked about the same.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 08:33:49 PM by Lowercase »

Online Paul Joppa

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2021, 04:04:00 AM »
Yes, the cathodes are so well shielded they are pretty dim: that's normal. As long as the C4S is working, the EF86 currents are too small to do any damage.

I expect the same problems could be caused by installing the 2N2222's backwards - I think you had checked that already, but it might be worth confirming.
Paul Joppa

Offline Lowercase

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2021, 09:15:58 AM »
Measured both sides and at all points from 3 to collector had 0. Reflowed joints in the area and retested, same results.


Retested the 2N222, base to emitter is 174, base to collector starts at 400 and rises. Collector to emitter starts at 300 rises.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 09:34:25 AM by Lowercase »

Online Paul Joppa

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2021, 09:40:43 AM »
Running low on things to check  :^)  is the emitter grounded? Is the transistor correctly oriented? Somehow the EF86 cathode current needs to get to ground, and it isn't.
Paul Joppa

Offline Lowercase

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2021, 09:59:24 AM »
Getting 0 when ground to emitter is tested. Yeah it’s oriented correctly. Tabs match up to the PCB, both to the left when looking above.

Since the circuit checks does that possibly mean tubes since you mentioned it earlier?

Noticed couple minutes after unplug OkC has 4.3, but OkD has .7 volts. Anything there?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 01:55:17 PM by Lowercase »

Offline Lowercase

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2021, 12:59:54 PM »
Re-Soldered the a/b pins and the C4S board. Plugged it in and same voltages again. Checked the ef86 tubes. Very very faint glow, but are warm to the touch. Photo below of tubes on:

https://i.imgur.com/my5FexG.jpg

Also, the getter has a more opaque ring around it unlike the 6922. They were like that when I got them though. Image below:

https://i.imgur.com/SZ7UCXJ.jpg

Keep looking over and rewarming anything that doesn’t look 100% perfect. Also retesting after doing a round and keep getting the same results without anything budging, same voltages in the second post.



If you need more images let me know.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 05:02:34 PM by Lowercase »

Online Paul Joppa

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2021, 05:32:29 PM »
I'm not sure what you  mean by "opaque" - the getter flash is usually silvery but you can't see through it. The nearest EF86 does appear to have a whitish getter deposit at the top of the tube - unless that's a reflection? That would be a sign of a bad tube that has leaked air. I'm skeptical abput that being the problem though. I'll keep thinking about it.
Paul Joppa

Offline Lowercase

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2021, 05:41:10 PM »
Pale silver/white would probably be the better description. I know that all white no silver is bad, seems like a portion is halfway there. And nope, no reflections, the other EF86 looks about the same as the closet one too. Can get some better photos from above if you want. Wish I had an easy way to test them, but no tube tester! Does the photo with power on look correct? I guess the manual wasn't joking when it said dim! 

Appreciate all the help, really looking forward to installing it in my system!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 05:45:19 PM by Lowercase »

Offline Paul Birkeland

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2021, 07:14:58 AM »
I have seen many EF86s with getters that look like that and worked just fine.  I would guess it's something specific to that particular production line. 

It is a bit of a stab in the dark, but it may not hurt to replace the 2N2222A transistors.  In order to do this, you should get a spring loaded solder sucker (the blue/yellow one that's $20 will work fine).

Cut the transistors off from the board with side cutters, then heat the bottom of a joint with the soldering iron and use the spring loaded sucker to suck out the solder and the lead. 

I have on a few occasions seen those transistors fail when I've made a wiring error here and there. 

-PB
Paul "PB" Birkeland

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Offline Lowercase

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2021, 07:36:55 AM »
Yeah I took a closer look at them this morning and they do look fine. Comparing too much to the other two which are uniformly silver and a bit darker.

Ordered two of the 2N2222A and will swap them out. Hopefully the fix all along! 

Offline Lowercase

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Re: Eros 2 final voltage check — high values
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2021, 02:09:36 PM »
Replaced the 2N2222A transistors and some exciting results to report!

IA 210-230V 217V
IB 210-230V 217V
OA 155-185V 153V
OB 155-185V 151V
OC 95-100V 100V
OD 95-100V 101V
OkA 95-105V 101V
OkB 95-105V 103V
OkC 0.7-2V 1V
OkD 0.7-2V 1V


Still some slightly under and over optimum, but within 10%! Can’t wait to hook it up. Thanks to both Pauls for helping diagnose!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 07:45:32 AM by Lowercase »