Hi, I just joined the Bottlehead family!

[mediumjim]

As for dismissing the FPI and FPII, I should be the last person to do that. It was our bread and butter for many years, we manufactured and sold many thousands of them. It was a kit that was in the right place at the right time.

Part of the redesign that changed FPII to FPIII was to implement a bigger power transformer that allowed for a more sophisticated power supply and part of the redesign was to revise the chassis to one that would allow the installation of more tube types. These kinds of changes were things that were suggested by our FPII customers. We have built several Foreplay IIIs with 6SN7s, which is of course the octal equivalent of the 6FQ7. And we have published the necessary changes, which are simply to change the sockets to octal and to adjust the value of the resistor on the heater supply. The mod would be simpler if using 6FQ7s as one would only need to rewire the heater connections of the existing sockets and do the resistor change.

http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,567.0.html

I happened to find that I prefer the sound of the 12AU7 to the 6SN7 in this circuit when we tried it. Others may prefer the 6SN7 or 6FQ7. I posted my suggestion that the best bang for the buck may be to sell a Foreplay II and buy a Foreplay III because of the more sophisticated power supply regulation it has and the improved frequency extension and soundstage that, in my opinion, it can produce. Adding the shunt regulator to the FPII would be a rather involved modification and in the end it might just be easier and more cost effective to move to the FPIII because of that. I don't think it has to be one you buy from me, it could be a used Foreplay III.

Doc, thanks for the clarification.  The FP2 that I'm getting (still waiting for the Brown Truck) does have bigger Iron that addresses the Power Supply. I was a lucky guy on the one I bought (if it lives up to the expectations I have).  
Sorry for my snarky attitude and questioning your intentions.  I can tell that you have passion for what you do.  

Jim

[Paul Joppa]

Post when it arrives, and post pictures if you can - it will be fun to see what you got, and there are many here who started with a Foreplay I or II and have traveled the road with it.

Incidentally, most of us use the "show unread posts" button every day, so we see every new post on any forum. The breakdown into specific sub-topics is an aid to searching when someone wants to find an old post. It turns out to be a big help, for me anyhow.

[mediumjim]

Hi Paul:

I'm understanding that, I'm used to other forums that it would have been considered as a banishment.  I got it at 7:00pm and just got back from an evening out.  I will try and post some pictures tomorrow. 

Jim

Post when it arrives, and post pictures if you can - it will be fun to see what you got, and there are many here who started with a Foreplay I or II and have traveled the road with it.

Incidentally, most of us use the "show unread posts" button every day, so we see every new post on any forum. The breakdown into specific sub-topics is an aid to searching when someone wants to find an old post. It turns out to be a big help, for me anyhow.

[JC]

Another issue which may or may not factor in is that the Bottlehead Forum, in this incarnation, is only a little over a year old.  Still a work in progress, so to speak.  The original forum, which was hosted by a service rather than Bottlehead itself, had developed many years of searchable archives with a lot of collective wisdom and experience, and I think there is a desire to create an even more useful resource here, if possible.

Friendliest forum I know of, both management and users.  Lots of mutual respect and little or no snark, ever.  A credit to everyone involved.

I'm sure many here are genuinely interested in seeing pictures of your new acquisition, when you have a chance to post them.  I know I am!   From the descriptions you have posted, it sounds like quite a find.

[Doc B.]

One nice thing is that Rod Morris has left the old forum up as an archive. He is doing this out of kindness and also because I guess it is a PITA to take down! But it may not be up there forever. I will use this moment to ask once more that if anyone finds an interesting technical morsel over there about a kit please transfer the info to a post here to help preserve it. (beware that the AA search engine pretty easily overwhelmed as a useful tool by the sheer volume of 10 or 11 years of posts in our forum, so make your search pretty specific)

[mediumjim]

Okay, I hooked her up and put her through some paces.  I only had time to listen to a couple of CD's with the first being Steely Dan "Everything Must Go" and then Buddy Guy Live with the Saturday Night Live Band.  

Let me say that my new FP is dead quiet.  First impressions can be a little skewed, but I will say that I'm really pleased with it.  There was so much inner detail and air, I was hearing things that I hadn't before in both CD's.  The bass was deep, tight and very fast, no sibilence at all even when it was hitting 102db in the listening position.  The soundstaging was huge and deep and with excellent placement of the instruments.  What I really liked was that there was no harshness or straining when pushed.  

I will have to toss on some classical, female vocals, jazz and rock to put it through the rest of its paces, but if it performs as well as it did today, the McIntosh MX-110 will be used for the 2nd system.  

Before I go on, I want to apologize for one of my posts as it was out of line.  

Here's some images to tell the tale under the hood:

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagehost.vendio.com%2Fpreview%2Fbi%2Fbigjimmead%2FFP2.jpg&hash=fa0b17e5dcb69f99f5115bbd1d6afa5e5730ff16)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagehost.vendio.com%2Fpreview%2Fbi%2Fbigjimmead%2FFP2a.jpg&hash=9b07743b16842a137780637eb04c46645a858eba)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagehost.vendio.com%2Fpreview%2Fbi%2Fbigjimmead%2FFP2b.jpg&hash=267bbe893f374324649cce3ca05eb9a93cb401ff)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagehost.vendio.com%2Fpreview%2Fbi%2Fbigjimmead%2FFP2c.jpg&hash=f19af0f1f697f175863fd36c301af041c4d9b481)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagehost.vendio.com%2Fpreview%2Fbi%2Fbigjimmead%2FFP2d.jpg&hash=7612117ff6b1ab3da9efa1e28e518864ddad53e5)

[mediumjim]

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagehost.vendio.com%2Fpreview%2Fbi%2Fbigjimmead%2FFP2e.jpg&hash=b18fd4c90f49aebf9ee4686ac4b1aac9edcfc809)

[Paul Joppa]

Sweet! I was hoping that would turn out to be the 369AX transformer, a very good choice. I see lots of shielded wiring, Dale RN resistors, and fat Orange Drops - the good ones, film and foil, I expect.

[JC]

Ooh!  Ooh!  A lot of extras!

I have a feeling with the 6FQ7s, you may like it on female vocals a bunch!

[mediumjim]

JC:

I plan on a little Billy Holiday, Fiona Apple, Diana Krall and the obvious Norah Jones for the Female vocal tests.  Again, I'm still digesting how good the soundstaging is with it.  It will only get better as the tubes have less than 200 hours on them and still are opening up.  I have to think there's some synergy going on as my Mono Amps have 6CG7's as the Inverter/Driver Tubes and are the same as 6FQ7's. 

Again, I'm not a solder meister and it was divine intervention that led me to Bottlehead to begin with and then to get lucky to get one where the builder knew his craft.

Thanks again to Doc his due diligence as he's the guy who made true Audiophile available at a fair price.   I've always known that Speakers were way overpriced.   A good friend of mine has Avant Garde Speakers that cost over $70,000 that don't sound any better than my humble KEF 104.2's with B&W Subs.  He also has a Nagra Preamp that cost about $20,000 and I now have to chuckle as my little DIY Bottlehead sounds every bit as good (to my ears). 

The only thing I splurged on in my system was my Marantz 9's and while I really love them, I now have to wonder if there isn't something out there that sounds as good for a lot less dough...nah!

I really like Grainger's signature as it really is true!

Jim

[JC]

Well, if you're looking for something to do some time, check out all the Foreplay posts at the old forum site.  It can give you some insight into some of the mods yours has that were really pretty much a result of the community interaction here with a few key players.

I had some friends who worked at a hi-end shop in my town who spoke of a customer with $50k speakers with $5k worth of speaker wire to feed them.  Everything in his listening room was bolted to the floor, including the chairs!  You weren't allowed to be off axis!

And, yet, I think I've had more musical enjoyment from an FP2 feeding a Stereo 70 I cleaned up than anything I've ever owned.  Just good, simple designs done well.  Very good parts, but not the ultimate be$t by any means.

In fact, it was for the Stereo 70 that I bought the FP to begin with.  Its ownership history was unique to my town, and I felt it needed a good mate.  I had been aware of Bottlehead through magazines, so I hunted up their forum and liked what I read.

Sound familiar?


Enjoy!  And, by all means post your impressions after you've had a chance to listen some more.

[mediumjim]

Jim:

Yes, I do find a lot of similarity, except my friend hasn't bolted anything down! I will go back and gander the archived forum for those who provided the mods that mine is priveledged to have.

Jim

[JC]

Good deal.  I expect it will be clunky, as Doc said, due to the mass of posts there, but if you have the time and patience to slog through, I do think you will be repaid for your efforts.

It may also give you the opportunity to dig up a shot of the original $99 special, wood base optional!

[mediumjim]

2nd Impressions are when you usually come back to earth...

Today I gave it some Diana Krall Live in Paris, a bootleg version, and Billie Holiday, the Millennium Collection.  The only problem with the Diana Krall Bootleg is that it was directly off the board and there was no mixing.   The quality was there and the placement was more as it would be live.   There was never a quiver or any sibilance.  In fact, it was smooth and sweet.  Nice overall presentation. 

The Billie Holiday CD is harder to get a grasp on as it is a little over mastered and from old source material, but it also was pleasing and with nice presence. 

Even though the MX-110 has better S/N, it is more strained sounding when it is asked to go over 100db and the FP2 is effortless even as I have to get it to 3:00 to get it there.  My Speakers are rated 92db, but since they're 4ohm I would guess they're really 89db.  My listening room is about 16x14' and is somewhat dead acoustically. 

Thanks,
Jim

[mediumjim]

Let's see, Bottlehead has been around for over 10 years and here walks in a newbie and trying to tell you all how good it is!  I really don't think what I listen to is important.   The facts are my humble little FP2 sounds really good and is allowing me to hear my favorite music in a new light.  There really isn't a weakness that I've detected.  I will be doing some cosmetic upgrades and possibly roll some better tubes in her, but that's it.

If I ever decide to put together a SET system I know where I will be going to do so. 

Thanks for all the excellent advice, especially Grainger.  Thanks for not tossing me out with the bath water and for listening to my prattling. 

Jim