Pairing S. HD700 + Dynaudio S.40 with DAC/AMP

Nicky · 10249

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Offline Nicky

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on: October 08, 2023, 06:20:18 AM
Hi,
I am totally novice in Hi-Fi.
I am the owner of the Sennheiser HD700 (150 Ohm) + some Dynaudio Special 40 (6 Ohm/86db)
I admit I never used them in a proper way (shame on me)
I am looking for an AMP that could ideally match both of them.
What would you recommend please and why?
Also, which DAC would you recommend as they are so many ?
I've seen some threads on S.HD700 here but pretty old ones therfore I wonder what current equipment would match the best.
Ideally at cca 1500€ max total DAC/AMP.
Many thanks!
Nicky



Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1 on: October 08, 2023, 06:49:42 AM
The HD-700s would work nicely on any of our amps really, but you would end up with pretty poor performance out of the typical solid state DAC+Headphone amp combo products out there since those tend to be rather limited in voltage output.  On your budget you could pair a Crack with your headphones then get a 1/4" to RCA cable and use that in the headphone jack of the Crack to feed a pair of power amps for your speakers.   There should be lots of IcePower/PuriFi amplifier options in the EU that aren't crazy expensive.  As for DACs, I would look for something with an ESS9038, ESS9036, AK4499, etc. 

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Nicky

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Reply #2 on: October 08, 2023, 07:33:41 AM
Thanks a lot for the reply Paul!


Headphone :// A DAC (with ESS9038, ESS9036, AK4499, etc. ) -> Crack (speedball?) -> HD700

Bookshelf speakers :// A DAC (with ESS9038, ESS9036, AK4499, etc. ) -> crack (speedball?) -> (1/4 to RCA) -> IceP./purify amp -> Dyn S.40

Did I understand correctly?

(sorry for the stupid questions) No AMP could potentially power the HD700/DynS40 directly instead of having 2 devices -in your product range- ? What is the added value of having 2 separate AMP devices?

cheers, nicky.





Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #3 on: October 08, 2023, 07:48:43 AM
Yes, those setups are a good place to start. 

The S40s are going to want a lot of power, at least what a Kaiju provides, so that's driving my recommendation for an external high power amp.  Technically what you would have is a dedicated headphone amp that you could use as a preamp if you're not using your headphones rather than two amplifiers.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Nicky

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Reply #4 on: October 08, 2023, 09:03:09 AM
So it means that the Kaiju (quite too much vs my budget unfortunately) is too powerful to run the HD700 correct?
But then why would I need a preamp if I was using a Kaiju or any other high power Amp just to drive the S40s?
Thanks Paul.



Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #5 on: October 08, 2023, 09:24:56 AM
I suspect the Kaiju with the DC filament upgrade would be nice on your HD-700, but you would still need a preamp for source selection and volume control.  If you only need one source, then you can get great performance with your HD-700s by using a Crack, and it can also be used effectively to drive a pair of larger power amps.  High power solid state amps do not seem to be such a great match for driving high impedance headphones.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Mucker

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Reply #6 on: October 08, 2023, 09:33:58 AM
I agree on the Crack with Speedball. More than great with Senn's!

What source are you using? There are so many great, low cost DAC's available now. You don't have to spend big to get absolute transparency.



Offline Nicky

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Reply #7 on: October 08, 2023, 10:28:58 AM
Thanks Paul - very clear.
@Mucker (thanks) - starting from a blank page (no DAC/preamp/Amp) as yet
If you know a great "affordable" DAC (with ESS9038, ESS9036, AK4499, etc. ), do not hesitate to share your thoughts !
cheers.



Offline Mucker

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Reply #8 on: October 08, 2023, 10:48:56 AM
When I asked what source I was referring to what you are planning to feed the DAC.

A DAC usually accepts only digital signals into it, such as from a PC, phone, cd player, streamer, etc.. DAC inputs are usually USB, Toslink, or coax.

Are you planning to use a turntable or other older devices with RCA outputs?



Offline Nicky

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Reply #9 on: October 08, 2023, 07:16:44 PM
Ah sorry. I guess streamer mainly and hard drive/laptop as well.



Offline hmbscott

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Reply #10 on: October 08, 2023, 08:31:12 PM
Not sure what you would consider affordable, but Geshelli Labs makes the JNOG2 [J2] DAC available with the ESS ES9038Q2M chip at $250. And, the JNOG2 SOCKETED [J2S] DAC with the newer AK4499 chip can be had for as low as $430 (w/o USB).  I can certainly recommend either of my DAC's, the more affordable Schiit Modi+, $129, using the ESS ES9018 chip, or the one I prefer, my less affordable DENAFRIPS ARES II / Enyo R2R DAC currently $841.90 (USD). It's a discrete resistor R2R ladder DAC rather than a delta-sigma chip based DAC. These are all well regarded quality products.

Scott
[Ortofon 2M Bronze > U-Turn Theory > Eros II] & [iMac via USB > Denafrips Ares 2] >> Moreplay >> Schiit Lokius EQ >> Stereomour II >> Hsu ULS-15 Sub >> homemade DML Speakers
Moreplay 2nd out >> [Crack + Speedball > HD 650]


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #11 on: October 08, 2023, 09:04:24 PM
We may be talking at cross purposes here, but bear with me for a minute.

The kind of amp you want, one that can drive speakers as well as headphones, exists in our product line; it's called the S.E.X. amp (Single-Ended eXperimenter's). But like most SET amps, it is low powered - 2 watts per channel, which is 3dB greater than 1 watt.

I have found that if an amp + speaker can produce 102dB at full power, it's loud enough for "most audiophiles, most of the time." Your speakers with a 2 watt amp can only produce 89dB; to get the full benefit of those speakers you'd want 40 watts (16dB above 1 watt).

"Full benefit" here means concert-hall loudness, in a largish living room, of a Mahler symphony or similar complex, spectrally dense material. This is similar to the THX home-movie-theater specs. But if you have a small room and/or cranky neighbors, or if you listen in the near field (think computer speakers), or if you don't really listen very loud, that might work with the S.E.X. amp. We make a speaker kit, the Pipette, for just such applications - it's rated at 85dB sensitivity.

The reason I mention this amp is that, like the Crack, it can drive a larger (40-watt?) power amp of your choice if you find it unsatisfactory.

Paul Joppa


Offline Deluk

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Reply #12 on: October 09, 2023, 02:20:15 AM
I've always thought that the minimum ohms for a Crack was about 250. Here you are saying that the HD700 with 150 ohms is fine to use with a Crack. Am I wrong with my assumption? I use HD600.



Offline Mucker

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Reply #13 on: October 09, 2023, 01:42:55 PM
Ah sorry. I guess streamer mainly and hard drive/laptop as well.

Are you planning to have the streamer and laptop connected to the DAC at the same time?



Offline twofires

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Reply #14 on: October 12, 2023, 07:45:27 PM
Former Special 40 owner here. You might get away with the SEX configured for 4ohms in a small room at low levels (I run my equally inefficient Parts Express C-Notes this way), but I don't think the Forties would do much more than that without more oomph. The speakers spend most of their frequency response above 8 ohms, but have a couple of dips below that down to 5ish ohms that mean the SEX should really be configured for 4 ohms to work with them. I sold the my Special Forties before I built my S.E.X. amp, but I did run those speakers with a 33w push pull amp for a while, and based on that experience I don't think 2 watts is going to cut the mustard.

Perhaps when/if the rumoured Bottlehead push-pull amp comes to market there might be a purely tube option for the Special Forties?  ;D Until then, I agree that tube pre to a high power amp is probably the way to go.

Simon N