another 2A3 Paramount question

johnsonad · 13230

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline johnsonad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1670
on: March 22, 2011, 01:11:14 PM
Hi Paul and team,

Spoke with Mike about plate chokes for my Paramounts.  As I already have MQ iron, he does not sell the BH-6 seperately.  He is going to make a pair of BCP-15's but needs to know if the rating should be 40 or 50 mA?  The soft start kits are installed and working fine.  Also, the parafeed cap will be increased to 10uF correct?  If it makes a difference, I'm using the EML 2A3 mesh plate tube. 

Thanks,

Aaron

Aaron Johnson


Offline Doc B.

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 9657
    • Bottlehead
Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 01:25:42 PM
Choke should be gapped for 50mA.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline johnsonad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1670
Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 01:32:42 PM
That was quick!  Thanks Dan!

Aaron Johnson


Offline Jim R.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2194
  • Blind Bottlehead
Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 04:22:04 PM
Aaron,

I also just asked this of PJ as I decided to build my paramour IIs with 2a3s instead of the originally planned sr45, and he also said the 50 hy at 40 ma is the best choice for the BCP-15.

I just don't seem to be able to get confirmation from Mike L that I wanted to change the gap spec on these -- sure hope he gets the change before it's too late.

-- Jim

Jim Rebman -- recovering audiophile

Equitech balanced power; uRendu, USB processor -> Musette DAC -> 5670 tube buffer -> Finale Audio F138 FFX -> Cain and Cain Abbys near-field).

s.e.x. 2.1 under construction.  Want list: Stereomour II

All ICs homemade (speaker and power next)


Offline johnsonad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1670
Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 04:55:05 PM
I called Mike tonight.  He is usually around in the evening time. 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 09:29:52 PM by johnsonad »

Aaron Johnson


Offline Doc B.

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 9657
    • Bottlehead
Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 07:35:07 AM
All you have to do is look at the schematic and use Ohm's law to calculate what the plate choke current rating needs to be. The 2A3 in Paramount has 220V at the cathode and the cathode resistors are a total of 4K ohms. 220V/4000ohms=55mA.

ParamourII - cathode at 60V and cathode R is 1100 ohms. 60V/1100 ohms = 54.5 mA

For the 45 the current is typically more like 35-40mA.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline Paul Joppa

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 5831
Reply #6 on: March 23, 2011, 11:28:19 AM
Popping in for a minute here.

The Doc B is correct, and I am wrong. The Paramount 2A3 need the greater current, so it normally uses the Paramount upgrade. The Paramour II and Stereomour were designed for 50mA current; the higher current may be tube to tube variation (?). I'll get back to this next week when I have my notes and files available.

It's the 45, or a 2A3 operated in 45 mode, that can use the 40mA rated choke in a Paramour or Stereomour.

Paul Joppa


Offline Doc B.

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 9657
    • Bottlehead
Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 11:33:27 AM
Popping in for a minute here.

The Doc B is correct, and I am wrong.

I am going to print this post and frame it.

I just calc'd the currents from the Vk spec on the maps in the manuals.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline Jim R.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2194
  • Blind Bottlehead
Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 11:59:09 AM
You saw it here first, folks! :-)

Jim Rebman -- recovering audiophile

Equitech balanced power; uRendu, USB processor -> Musette DAC -> 5670 tube buffer -> Finale Audio F138 FFX -> Cain and Cain Abbys near-field).

s.e.x. 2.1 under construction.  Want list: Stereomour II

All ICs homemade (speaker and power next)


Offline johnsonad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1670
Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 12:39:35 PM
So confused!! :)  I'll wait for Paul's response..... For some reason I thought the cathode was seeing around 205v with the new soft start (measured at center of hum pot) which would put it a little lower at 51mA and change.  I should probably stay out of these high level discussions though :)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 12:47:39 PM by johnsonad »

Aaron Johnson


Offline Doc B.

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 9657
    • Bottlehead
Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 01:20:53 PM
That is possible. Might be that the 220V in the schematic didn't get updated in the new soft start schematic. At any rate the plate choke gapped for around 50mA is still the right choice over one gapped for 40.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline Jim R.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2194
  • Blind Bottlehead
Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 02:54:11 PM
And Aaron,

gapped for 40 and 50 mA are your only choices on the bcp-15, so just go for the 50 mA version and youwill probably be ok, assuming the bcp-15 is going to work in the paramount, which I amit, is still not completely clear to me.

Ill be using mine in the paramour II, so I fel comfortable with that.

-- Jim

Jim Rebman -- recovering audiophile

Equitech balanced power; uRendu, USB processor -> Musette DAC -> 5670 tube buffer -> Finale Audio F138 FFX -> Cain and Cain Abbys near-field).

s.e.x. 2.1 under construction.  Want list: Stereomour II

All ICs homemade (speaker and power next)


Offline johnsonad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1670
Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 12:06:57 PM
Welcome back Paul!  Hope you had a nice vacation!  Just a bump on this to refresh your memory.

Regards,

Aaron

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Joppa

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 5831
OK, here's what I have now that I am back in town:

Paramount 2A3 original design: target was 55mA, can't use the BCP-15. Use the stock choke or the Magnequest BH-7. Target parafeed capacitor is 5.6uF for either, with the stock 3.3 up to around 10uF being an acceptable range.

Paramount v.1.1 (soft-start) 2A3 : Properly adjusted, the current is 50 +/- 2 mA, so the BCP-15/50mA or the BH-6 (Paramour upgrade) plate chokes are acceptable. (Note the Paramour upgrade transformer BH-5 is the same for Paramount or Paramour.) With the stock or upgrade BH-5 output transformer and BCP-15 or BH-6 choke, the parafeed cap is 10uF, range 5 to 18uF acceptable.

Paramount v.1.1 (soft-start) and a 45, using a 6K cathode resistance (two 3K resistors replacing the 2K resistors in the stock amp), and retaining the stock or BH-5 output transformer, the plate current is 35 +/- 1mA, so the BCP-15/40mA choke is acceptable. In that case, the parafeed cap would be 12uF, range 6uF to 24uF - assuming you retain the stock or BH-5 output transformer.  NOTE: I separately have advised jrebman and Paully on specific changes, such as different output transformer impedances and cathode resistor values, and assuming the power line voltages at their houses. Those recommendations are not general ones, they are specific to their situations only.

Original Paramour and Stereomour 2A3: The 2A3 cathode resistor is 1200 ohms and the bias is 60 volts, giving 50mA plate current. So the Paramour II upgrade BH-6 or the BCP-15/50mA (Original Paramour upgrade) are suitable. The original Paramour upgrade transformer (not by Magnequest) was a 4K primary impedance, same as the Stereomour stock transformer, so the parafeed cap value is 5uF, with an acceptable range of 2.5 to 10uF.

Original Paramour and Stereomour 45: The plate current is in the range 35mA to 40mA, so the BCP-15/40mA can be used. Assuming the 4K transformer impedance as in the 2A3 versions, the parafeed cap would be slightly larger, 6uF with a range of 3 to 12uF. Using a different output transformer impedance would call for some other changes.

Paramour II 2A3: This version of the Paramour design uses the Western Electric automatic bias (a.k.a. "split-rail") scheme, where the driver current as well as the 2A3 plate current goes through the 1100 ohm resistor. The total current is 55mA, of which 50mA goes through the 2A3 plate, 4mA through the driver plate, and 1mA through the driver C4S bias. So the Paramour upgrade BH-6 or the BCP-15/50mA are suitable, same as the original Paramour and the Stereomour. If the stock or BH-5 output transformers are used, then the parafeed cap is 10uF, with an acceptable range of 5uF to 20uF.

Paramour II 45: As with the original Paramour and the Stereomour, the current is below 40mA and the BCP-15/40mA would be acceptable. The BH-5 output transformer (3K impedance) would normally be used, calling for a parafeed cap of 12uF, range 6uF to 24uF.

Man, I hope I covered everything and got it all right this time!

Paul Joppa


Offline johnsonad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1670
Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 12:48:44 PM
Thanks Paul!  This should be a sticky!  The quality of product and your dedication to all of us out here is what keeps me coming back to Bottlehead :)

Aaron Johnson