what would you upgrade first: 'table or pre-amp?

[denti alligator]

I've been saving my pennies to get the Seduction, as an upgrade from my current Hagerman Bugle, but then I've not been totally happy with my turntable. It's not bad, but I would be happier with better stability and more detailed sound. I'm thinking I ought to try and upgrade my 'table before I even bother with the Seduction. Thoughts?

[Paul Joppa]

My initial thought is that a good tube preamp will make the music more engaging, which will encourage you to improve the mechanical aspects (frequency range, noise, flutter, etc....). The more technical aspects may or may not improve the emotional connection to the music - their appeal is sometimes more intellectual. I'm not discounting the importance of either one, but emotions to tend to drive actions more easily!

[ssssly]

I would vote for the seduction first.

There are tons of P1 mods for reasonable ammounts of money. So if you do the seduction first, you can then play around with with modding the P1 to see what effects the sound the most to you and then go after a table that is stronger in those areas.

[johnsonad]

Just my two cents worth. Continue to save your pennies and buy a Eros.  Save even more pennies and pick up an old Empire deck like Doc B is using, have fun rebuilding it (for cheap), build the plinth so that you can change out arms and upgrade in the future and do the same with your carts.  Paul is ultimately right though, the music should be emotional and moving. 

[Grainger49]

THE first Bottlehead I met was poster pRC.  He allowed me to listen to his system with a Beta Seduction in it.  A very nice guy and a modifier extraordinaire.  Here is the link to his Empire table:

http://www.cognitivevent.com/av_empire.html

[denti alligator]

Thanks for your input, guys. I think modding the P1 is probably not the best route. I'd have to upgrade the motor and platter and maybe pub-platter, and at that point I might as well have bought a P3-24, RP3 or used P5.

The Empire mod route sounds great, but I think it also sounds like a project for "later" in life. I'm not sure I'm ready for that kind of time/money investment.

I think getting the Seduction first is probably wisest, and it's also cheapest. After that I'll keep my eye out for used tables to upgrade my P1.

[Paully]

Seems to me your Rega is fine for now.  Having had the Bugle and the Seduction I would say get the Seduction.  If I may be so bold you could take the RB250 and put it on a Thorens TD-150 with a new armboard.  I had a P3/RB300 and put the tonearm on a Thorens myself.  I did it just on a lark but was pleased enough with the results that I never switched back.  Just a thought for an upgrade that might be a bit cheaper than other options and give you some decent results.  Beyond that, putting a new cartridge on the turntable might yield the bigger results than upgrading the turntable itself after you get a really good phono stage.

[denti alligator]

Is the Thorens THAT good?  And why is its tonearm not worth keeping?

[Paully]

I don't know if the Thorens is that good, I just thought it was better than the Rega.  As far as the arm goes it depends on the model.  I bought a TD-150 for a good price but it didn't have the arm on it to begin with so I put mine on it.  No point buying one with an arm, and the TD-150 often comes sans arm, if you alread have one. So it is just a matter of the most economical way to approach this as far as my post goes.

[Grainger49]

The Thorens arm of that day is badly dated compared to the modern Rega arm.  The Rega arm is well worth moving to the Thorens.  I was there when Paul swapped his tables and I preferred the Thorens as well.

[denti alligator]

I would just like to say that upgrading to a Seduction would be so much easier if Doc did one of those special sales a la the Crack sale, but with the Seduction. [hint hint]