Gapped vs. Ungapped Transformers

Dr. Toobz · 12845

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Offline Dr. Toobz

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on: December 03, 2009, 05:12:51 PM
As a theoretical exercise, can the S.E.X. be re-wired to use series feed and gapped transformers if one wished to do so? How many mA of DC would the big triode in the 6DN7 put onto a primary if the parafeed cap were removed? I always wondered what would happen if I played around with some commonly-available Edcor irons and the S.E.X., though it seems they are gapped (my understanding is that the gap prevents saturation from DC current?). Is there anything stopping one from using a gapped transformer on the S.E.X. as a normal transformer and not an autoformer, such as the CXSE25-4-6.5K?



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 06:29:15 PM
The Edcor XSE10-8-8k will work pretty well as a series feed transformer.  I find that the bass response is better than the specified frequency response.  For the SEX amp, something like a 30ma gap will be sufficient. 

You will indeed need to ditch the autoformer wiring, but other than that, it should be an interesting experiment. 

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Dr. Toobz

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Reply #2 on: December 03, 2009, 06:47:56 PM
I noticed the cheaper irons you mention on Edcor's page, but the bass rolloff scared me away. They look worse than the Specos :-) My big thing has been trying to find irons that will give me better bass output with the S.E.X. Obviously, the MQ irons are one such option, but I am curious to see what other options are out there on store shelves, given the lead time on MQ orders.

Two other questions:

a) In series feed, does one omit the coupling cap (in the S.E.X., the 1uF cap before the Specos), since DC is not an issue (so long as the transformer is rated for a given current)?

b) It seems like the stock Specos and the Edcors you cite have a stepdown ratio of 1000:1 (i.e., 8000 -> 8 ohms). If I used something like a 6500 -> 4 ohm iron, which gives a ratio of 1625:1, wouldn't I end up with a lower effective output impedance at the speaker? Or would having fewer turns on the secondary in relation to the primary lower the inductance at low frequencies, thus giving worse bass performance?



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #3 on: December 03, 2009, 09:06:01 PM
The stock SEX plate choke is about 30 henries; the MQ upgrade is 50 henries. For comparable bass performance you need a series feed transformer with at least this much inductance. Such transformers are not impossible to build, but they are not very common either. To be fair, such a transformer should be compared to the MQ upgrade output transformer, not the stock Speco.

Edcor and Hammond both make less expensive series feed transformers with lower inductance, which might be very approximately compared with the stock plate choke/Speco output combination. (The Speco inductance can be anywhere from less than 10 to over 100 henries depending on the signal frequency and level, so it's hard to guess what series-feed output transformer inductance might "match" the stock parafeed combination.)

The reason for the inductance requirement is to prevent a low inductance from demanding too much current from the output tube in the bass. In parafeed, if the parafeed capacitor is properly sized, the impedance seen by the tube is maintained high and resistive to a lower frequency that a simple inductor of the same inductance as the plate choke, so a larger inductance could be required for a series feed transformer to match the low-frequency distortion performance of a parafeed arrangement.

As a rough comparison, the Magnequest DS-050 and the cheaper RH-40 are both rated 40mA at 40 henries. With 20% more turns on the primary they would have an 8K primary impedance, 60 henries inductance, and 32mA current capacity - ideal for a SEX amp with comparable performance. I can't find the exact details but these transformers are roughly the same size as the SEX amp power transformer, and weigh about twice as much as the stock output transformer and plate choke combined.

The other thing about series feed is that the output signal current flows through the power supply. That means two things - the power supply must have more filtering to maintain the same hum level, and the last filter capacitor must be higher quality (comparable to the parafeed capacitor) to provide a similar sonic quality.

There is no reason not to experiment with this comparison, other than cost and the mechanical difficulties of fitting different components. I would suggest the RH-40 as a good starting point - the lower plate load impedance is not so low as to make it unreasonable. Change the 47uF/450v power supply capacitor to something larger (390uF perhaps?) bypassed with a Solen 47uF/600v unit so as to maintain the midrange quality equivalent to the normal Solen parafeed capacitor.

An alternative would be to add an RC stage of power supply filtering to lower the voltage, and increase the quiescent current of the 6DN7 correspondingly, to optimize for the 5K load impedance. I'll work out the numbers if anyone actually plans to do this.

Paul Joppa


Offline Dr. Toobz

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Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 06:48:02 AM
Thanks for all the detailed information! In a word, yuck....parafeed makes a whole lot more sense to me now. I'll just be patient and wait for the MQ iron upgrade and put in better coupling caps, as it sounds like attaining an equivalent level of performance from a series-feed arrangement would be more expensive and less convenient. I had neglected to think about the fact that the power supply gets into the picture with series feed, and hum/noise is a big no-no to me.....

Again, thank you guys for the awesome amount of technical knowledge you're able to offer to us amateurs :-)



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 06:52:01 AM
Hey PJ, are the EXO-45 and EXO-46 sized appropriately to fit on the SEX amp?  (I don't remember what they look like) 

I thinking the patience for the MQ iron upgrade will be rewarding.  If you got the itch to experiment with this kind of thing, be sure you don't "need" the SEX amp, as you might find that your series feed modifications make the SEX amp unsuitable for headphone use or some other possible problem...

-PB




Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 09:18:10 AM
Hey PJ, are the EXO-45 and EXO-46 sized appropriately to fit on the SEX amp?  ...
Yes, they are. The EXO-35, EXO-36 (2500 ohms) and EXO-45, EXO-46 (5K ohms) - what Mike sometimes calls his "shirt-pocket" series - are all built with the same size laminations. There is some variation in stack thickness depending on application. There is also a 10K unit in that series but it's not currently in the catalog - I think he called it the EXO-100 (?). That one was the basis from which the BH-1 SEX amp upgrade at 8K was developed.

Paul Joppa


Offline Dr. Toobz

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Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 02:10:31 PM
I ended up ordering the iron upgrade from Magnaquest, so perhaps I will save the series-feed experiments for when I attempt to design and build my own tube circuit(s). I still have much to learn before that happens, though!

Mike from Magnaquest was very helpful - I can't wait to hear what the MQ irons will do for my amp.



Offline Skip Pack

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Reply #8 on: December 07, 2009, 10:39:23 AM
Hey PJ, are the EXO-45 and EXO-46 sized appropriately to fit on the SEX amp?  (I don't remember what they look like) 

The EXO-45 and the BCP-15 bolt right in and don't interfere with anything.
The only downside is the exposed wiring on top though it's not DC. I've
been running this combination for three years very successfully.

Skip Pack