slipped while cutting/stripping wire....

madbrayniak · 13299

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Offline madbrayniak

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Reply #30 on: April 28, 2012, 01:21:14 PM
here are the pictures of my build.  Let me know if you see anything wrong, even after going through the manual three times i still cant catch anything.

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto2.jpg&hash=e18bead1c29b8ef6ed5496c3806818f765308909)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto3.jpg&hash=34242e010a53307d23311ffaf4feaa8ca85a8996)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto4.jpg&hash=6d7862f4ee5333a88fee08575aae1af853a84149)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto6.jpg&hash=9536d3703811f0d8137d3f7e72f44d79704dbbd1)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto7.jpg&hash=76f3f300edeb86474358c3d713bb0a83800ea4c9)



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #31 on: April 28, 2012, 01:37:00 PM
Two things:

First, I see that tube socket pin 2 has a different voltage than 4 and 6 - but 2 and 6 are connected inside the tube, so they can't have different voltages if the tube is installed. This is true for both tubes - are the pin numbers being identified correctly?

Second, I thought the PJCCS had been removed and the 4000 ohm resistors installed (one from the center bottom power switch terminal to A5, and another resistor from that same switch tab to B5). I see in the pictures that it is still there. We can proceed either way, but A) we have to know which is the case, and B) it will be a little easier to diagnose if the PJCCS is removed until the rest of the circuit is known to be working correctly.

In either case there should be 36 volts at the switch tab as mentioned; if not then it's time to check the 9-v battery wiring - and make sure none of the 9-v batteries are dead!

Paul Joppa


Offline madbrayniak

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Reply #32 on: April 28, 2012, 02:07:25 PM
the 4000 ohm resistor was never installed as I read through both manuals before building so I installed it in the PJCCS originally since I only got one pair of those resistors.  However, the extended lead is attached between 4 and 6.  I will remove the PJCCS and take a close up of each socket....give me about an hour to get it off and get a picture....

The 9v batteries are brand new and I actually wasn't testing it with the tubes connected so I will plug those in and test again.



Offline madbrayniak

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Reply #33 on: April 28, 2012, 07:11:28 PM
OH! I thought there would have also been some that came with the PJCCS as well since they are used there as well.

I took measurements with the tubes and they are different but still not where they are supposed to be. 

Needed/Read

T1 0/0.74
T2 2.5-3/ 0.06

T4 2.5-3/ 0.06
T5 0/0.74

A1 1.2-1.5/ -1.4
A2 23-25/ 1.2
A3 0/0.77
A4 23-25/ 1.21
A5 2.5-3/ 0.06
A6 23-25/1.21
A7 1.2-1.5/-1.4

B1 1.2-1.5/-1.4
B2 23-25/ 1.05
B3 0/ 0.78
B4 23-25/ 1.05
B5 2.5-3/ 0.06
B6 23-25/ 1.05
B7 1.2-1.5/ -1.39

for some reason photobucket isnt letting me copy the URL to post the pictures of the tube sockets that I am on now....I will get that resolved tomorrow and get them posted



Offline madbrayniak

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Reply #34 on: April 28, 2012, 07:14:36 PM
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto1.jpg&hash=f987715cd9d1ca097499c280234317e109608920)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto-1.jpg&hash=61ed13fed4810ef0fcc0ce612460dbf2f4afa7e5)



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #35 on: April 29, 2012, 10:18:20 AM
Ok, let's start with the easy ones.  

Tube Pins A1 and A7 should be soldered together, therefore the voltage is the same.   1.4V is good, negative means you should put that battery in backward.  See the first sticky in the Quickie folder.

Tube Pins B1 and B7 should be soldered together, therefore the voltage is almost the same.  1.4V is good, negative means you should put that battery in backward.  See the first sticky in the Quickie folder.

I am pretty sure where things went wrong was including the PJCCS in your initial build.  It is not advisable.  The tube wiring seems off.  Everything else I have looked at in the pictures looks right, as best I can see.  But the tube sockets are the problem.

Looking at the picture I seen no wires feeding tube pins A4/6 and B4/6.  This should have something from the PJCCS feeding to it.  This is where the higher voltage enters the tube.  You have very low voltage there meaning the PJCCS board is not feeding the voltage to the tubes.  Take out the circuit board and put a 4k resistor between A6 and the center lug of the power switch.  Do the same for B6 to the same terminal of the power switch.  Look at page 25 and 26 of the manual to see how it should be arranged.  BE quite sure that there is a wire between A6 and A4 as well as between B6 and B4.

BTW, I have never seen a multimeter that didn't have resistance on it.  There may be but I haven't seen one.  The Greek letter Omega (looks like an upside down horse shoe) stands for Ohms.  It may not say resistance.

I don't have the instructions so I don't know everywhere it is wired to.  After extracting the PJCCS, go back through the manual and verify that you have all the connections called for.  Then do the resistance checks.  Post only those that are out of spec by 15%.  

This will get you started.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 02:39:30 PM by Grainger49 »



Offline madbrayniak

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Reply #36 on: April 29, 2012, 03:05:24 PM
ok, i will try that tomorrow or tuesday.  I am going out of town for a job interview.

The reason that there is nothing on a4/6 is because I took the PJCCS off to take those pictures.  I should have explained that.

since the 4k resistors leads have been cut so short what would you advise as the best way to get it connected to try?



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #37 on: April 30, 2012, 12:57:56 AM
Just extend the leads with the Teflon insulated wire that came with the kit.  Twist them together, not like you would under a wire nut, but instead side by side twisted.  If that makes sense.

Just extend the leads then connect the Teflon wire where the resistor leads should be.



Offline madbrayniak

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Reply #38 on: May 01, 2012, 09:13:11 AM
well, i guess its true, you have to walk before you can run

it sounds AMAZING without the PJCCS so now I have to figure out what i did wrong and get it put back in there....

if it sounds this good without it I cant wait to see what it sounds like with it!

btw, you guys want to know something really ironic about this

The job I interviewed for yesturday was for a sales postion with a company that sales solder, welding rods, etc.

so maybe because of that I will get REALLY good at soldering because I will have to demo it on sales calls.....I already weld alot and I have soldered a good amount in the past but I wouldnt call myself a "pro" by any means.



Offline madbrayniak

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Reply #39 on: May 01, 2012, 05:17:49 PM
haha,

ok so what do you think is the problem on the PJCCS?  think the 4k resistors didnt have a good connection on the PJCCS?

 :P



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #40 on: May 01, 2012, 07:06:31 PM
We are now on the third page of this thread, so of course I don't remember the voltages or other symptoms.

As I recall though, the voltage at the tube plates was very low. Since we now know that the rest of the circuit was wired correctly, we can guess that the boards were not delivering enough current.

First thing is to check the board solder joints, of course - in many cases there may be a solder bridge between two terminals that are close together, or a lead that was missed and never soldered.

Second, check the components - make sure the transistor is the right one (MJE350), and both it and the diode are correctly oriented. You will probably want a magnifying glass and a good light source! Remember there are two versions of the transistor with different apparent orientation (see the sticky). Then measure the resistors to be sure they have the right value and are in the right places (470 ohms, 4K ohms, and 120K ohms). Most meters will measure them correctly without removing them from the board.

If that does not resolve the problem, then we'll have to get some data. Does your meter have a DC current range? That would be useful, but we can work around it if necessary.

Paul Joppa


Offline madbrayniak

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Reply #41 on: May 08, 2012, 10:05:40 AM
hey guys, sorry for the delay as I just now have been getting the PJCCS put back in as I got the new 4k resistors in and on the board.  Luckily this gave me a change to enjoy the quickie for a little while.

I have it installed now and I do indeed have the MJE350.  I double checked and made sure that they were the right ones.

I also double checked all my solder joints and orientations of everything.  I even reheated the solder and blew some out if I thought there was the slightest chance of a bridged connection.  I didn't see any but I did that just to make everything nice and clean.

result....still not working.  the 120k resistors are facing opposite directions in the manual and I have them facing the same exact ways as you can see in the picture above.

Still no sound with the PJCCS.  So I am assuming that I may have a bad resistor by chance? 



Offline madbrayniak

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Reply #42 on: May 08, 2012, 10:09:01 AM
I just checked to see if there was power on the CCS and there is.  I do not know what everything is supposed to be measuring but there is power.



Offline Doc B.

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Reply #43 on: May 08, 2012, 12:11:52 PM
This is incorrect. The MJE 350 always goes in the same way. That post you are referring to is about one batch of transistors we got, that looked a little different. They still go in the same way.  You may be confusing this with the orientation of the MJE5731A transistor, which is not used in this kit

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
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Bottlehead Corp.


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #44 on: May 08, 2012, 12:50:10 PM
To tell if you have a bad resistor, measure the resistance of each resistor.

Since it is already installed, measure the voltage at each of the three pins of the MJE350, and then measure the voltage at each of the five wires going to the PJCCS board. Measure at the board first. You should see 36v at IA and at IB, 24v approximately at OA and at OB, and zero volts at bA. You should also see zero volts at bB, since they are connected with a wire - but check it anyhow.

We can probably use that information to guess what is wrong.

Paul Joppa