SR45 amplifier

debk · 181486

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Offline xcortes

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Reply #240 on: April 09, 2013, 01:36:11 PM
Hey Paul, I don't thinks there's need for apologies. You're being very open as to where you're standing and we appreciate that. I guess some of us are so excited with this new project that we can become a PITA with our posts. Please take all of them as suggestions. In the end you know we'll find a way to mess around (while not necessarily improve) your final product. I think part of the fun of building BH kits is that. I'd never replace my BH amps with "finished" products for that reason!

Xavier Cortes


Offline tsingle999

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Reply #241 on: April 09, 2013, 04:13:27 PM
Paul, i can't conceive of my sr-45 being flawed. It is one of the great pleasures of my meager existence! But if you can improve it in some way i am all ears;)

SGS iTransporter with Qobuz & Roon to Optical Rendu to BH DAC (Battery) / Wavelegth Cosecant to BeePre to 300b(ehemoths) to Jagers.
Bottlehead Stat headphone amp with Wavelength Brick DAC


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #242 on: April 10, 2013, 01:15:03 PM
I guess I haven't addressed the impedance question very well yet - I was feeling pretty crabby last night (for which I apologize to anyone who might have felt offended. Completely unrelated reasons.)

Anyhow, in my opinion, or according to my analyses depending on how you like to phrase it, 4000 ohms is as close to ideal as you can get for a 45.  A 3K load exacerbates the already poor damping factor of the 45. On the other hand, getting full power from a 5K load would require a higher plate voltage than the tube is rated for.

By designing at 4K, a range of about 2800 to 5600 will work quite well (I calculate that as the square root of 2, multiplied by or divided into 4K) - that is, they will all produce similar power and distortion, with a slight tradeoff of higher distortion and greater power at the lower impedance, and vice-versa at the higher impedance. In my opinion, this is the best available compromise; those who wish to use different iron are welcome do so as long as they can figure out how to mount the components safely and effectively - and don't expect Bottlehead to guarantee the result!  :^)   In many cases that will require a new, larger chassis plate - but that's always been the case, and probably always will.

In the original SR45, I jiggered the operating point (lower voltage and a little too much current) to work best with a 3K load, since that was the only available quality iron for the Paramour at that time. Stretching that to 5K was a bit much, so I offered some adjustments, mostly just reducing the current. It increases the distortion a bit, leaves the power unchanged, and extends the tube's life a bit. I'd like to stress that all the above are quite small effects - I think most audiophiles might hear them but would be hard pressed to choose which is best.

Incidentally, in my current draft layout there is more room than usual for capacitors. But as I said, I haven't even shown this draft to Doc B yet.

Paul Joppa


Offline xcortes

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Reply #243 on: April 10, 2013, 01:41:46 PM
It takes way more to offend me!

Something tells me these sr45s will be the last amps I'll ever need. The challenge will not be fitting the TL404s but finding time to build the three pairs instead!

Saludos

Xavier Cortes


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #244 on: April 10, 2013, 02:29:04 PM
Paul no offense taken! I hope I didn't offend you!

Thanks for the detailed clarification on impedance. I'm really looking forward to your final product!

Aaron Johnson


Offline 2wo

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Reply #245 on: April 10, 2013, 03:46:10 PM
I built my SR-45 with the BH-5, and BCP-15's,  however I may not have wired to the speaker, as Paul had intended. I wired for highest load.

I acquired a pair of nickel EXO-45's, put them in and like them. Understand, I like nickel and run them full range. I am not asking them for the very deepest bass. To that end I often run them with no cathode bypass cap on the 45...John   

John S.


Offline howardnair

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Reply #246 on: April 14, 2013, 02:24:02 AM
having ordered my-output transformers from magnequest-power transformers from bottlehead-triad chokes for power supply via [i forget where] and plate chokes from heyboer{using jim redmonds 60ma. 80H suggestion}-i am getting ready to order the rest of the parts i need-my question concerns the power supply caps which show to be 47uf--is there any benefit in increasing the value of the power supply caps
thanks howie



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #247 on: April 14, 2013, 03:53:57 AM
The value of the 450v capacitors in the power supply is not critical, once the choke has replaced the 270 ohm resistor and especially in a regulated PSU. I wouldn't go lower than 25uF, myself, or over 220uF, but the true answers come from PSUD (the simulation software) and from your ears.

Paul Joppa


Offline howardnair

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Reply #248 on: April 14, 2013, 07:02:14 AM
it seems best results using psud are 47uf for c1 and150uf/ 200uf for c2 --i am unable to put the first 470k resistor in place per the schematic but psud puts a 10m in series right after the rectifier for me-which after changing the values of this R1 around the 10m seems to be the ticket-is there a way to duplicate the power supply exactly -i seem to be able to insert only a circuit not a specific component and not parallel to c1



Offline debk

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Reply #249 on: April 14, 2013, 07:18:25 AM
The 470K resistors are bleeder resistors, I don't include these when modeling in PSUD

Debra

Debra K

Eros 2Phono amp
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Offline howardnair

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Reply #250 on: April 14, 2013, 07:48:09 AM
ok!!!-i managed to removed the one 470k--never having fooled with psud what exactly am i looking for-what i have on is a 10m resistor in series rt after the rectifier -a 47uf cap the choke then a 200uf cap with a load of 60ma-the caps are across the b+/b-this gives me on the graph simulator--at 0  a nice slightly upward curve then a 45ish degree line and then a gentle curve that then flattens at just below 400v--there does not seem to be any info to inform one of what it is we are looking for--i can infer from here and there on the net but nothing specific-it seems what i have modeled is correct as the curve is gradual with a steep but inclined climb and then leveling off --this is a little exasperating but a great deal of fun--realizing no-one has seen my yard -but i have lots of gardens and yard-trees to trim-- windows to paint--but nooo!!!! i sit here fooling with psud



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #251 on: April 14, 2013, 11:05:36 AM
Yeah, PSUD has a steep learning curve. Two things I look for:

1) no ringing, or at least not very high or for many cycles. This usually happens in the first few seconds.

2) To check the ripple, model after a delay of a few seconds so the voltage has reached a steady state. Then you can see the ripply, and the table will show max and min values.

There are extensive discussions (and flame wars  - wear your flak suit!) on the TubeDIY board at Audio Asylum. There are kernels of wisdom there, but more chaff than wheat. For a SR amp, the regulator will take out most of the ripple anyhow, so my advice is a quick check for ringing (you've done that), then head to the garden in the spring sunshine.

Paul Joppa


Offline howardnair

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Reply #252 on: April 15, 2013, 12:41:40 PM
thanks paul--i have one more question-the psud puts a 10m ohm resistor in right after the rectifier-i take that this is correct-what is the necessary wattage for this component



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #253 on: April 15, 2013, 01:07:31 PM
Change from an RC filter to a C filter, and the resistor will go away.

Unless you are referring to the capacitor's ESR, which you can find in the cap manufacturer's data sheet.

Paul Joppa


Offline howardnair

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Reply #254 on: April 15, 2013, 03:51:41 PM
i got it --thank you--