Bottleneck DIY speaker wire comparison (MD/VA/DC/DE/PA)

[RayP]

It looks like our next meet will be at Steve's place in Sterling VA on the last weekend in October (27 or 28). The details are still being confirmed and we may be in the local community hall but keep the date in mind.

I have been following a thread about speaker wires that has been interesting.
http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,3232.0.html

The topic has inspired us to have a speaker wire comparison day to see what factors really matter.

My initial thoughts are that each of us who brings cables will bring two pair of cables. They will need to be exactly the same except for one parameter.

For example, same copper, same gauge, same topology, same length, different insulation. We would then do a blind test to see if we can hear a difference.

This is not a competition to see who has the best cables. For example, the other thread mentioned barbed wire so I started to wonder about it. I will be bringing a pair of ordinary copper wire cables. I will also bring another pair of cables that are exactly the same except there will be barbs on them to lift them above the floor. Will we hear a difference? I don't have a clue but we will find out. Will they sound like crap, quite possibly, but will one pair sound crappier than the other?

We will specify the length of cable when the listening venue is established. We will also specify how the termination is to be done in case we do want to do further comparisons. I am leaning towards no termination at all, just bare wire(s) but am open to suggestions.

Any ideas or points that I have forgotten will be welcome.

ray

[John Roman]

An inspired quest, no doubt. One suggestion, take some pix and post results here.
John

[earwaxxer]

I second that! Upload some video to youtube as well. Lets get this debate over with! Once and for all!

[dbishopbliss]

Let me be sure I'm understanding... would an option be to make a braided type of cable, but one uses 18 gauge wires and one uses 22 gauge?  Or how about one pair is 6 feet long and one pair is 12 feet long?

What about having a wildcard division where there is no mate... I was going to make some speaker cables a while ago, but never got around to putting them together, but I don't have enough supplies for two pairs?

[RayP]

I think both of your examples (gauge and length) would be exactly what we are looking for. The basic principle is change just one parameter and see if we can hear a difference. For your special cables, we could try them after the comparisons.

To minimize duplication of effort, start thinking about the parameter you wish to compare and announce it so that somebody else doesn't pick it.

Mine is going to be steel barbed wire compared to steel barbed wire with the barbs removed (if I can actually do it). I'm hoping I can get the wire from the local Lowes, if not I will have to go to one of the local upscale specialty hardware shops.

I might also try to make a copper barbed wire cable to see if the steel sounds different from the copper. Sorry, there will be no silver barbed wire.

I have not decided how I will get around the insulation problem.

For those asking for a writeup, we usually post photos and a description of our meets. Perhaps one of our attendees (not me) can do the video.

ray

[Paul Joppa]

At one time there was an audio fashion for "air dielectric" meaning the speaker wires were spaced with wooden sticks, about 6 inches long, every couple feet or so. Popsicle sticks or tongue depressors for example. Much cheaper than ceramic high-voltage standoffs!

[RayP]

Since I have a bunch of popsicle sticks left over from building my H frame horns I was thinking of doing what you suggested. Is there a capacitance issue?

ray

[2wo]

Wow concertina speaker cable, half tweak, half security system. I think, rather then buying it. You should sneak into your local prison or military facility and steal it 

I once made a version of the braided Cat 5, that left my fingers bleeding. I would compare it to a version using the very same wire but only a few strands per cable.

I have a pair of the generic Woods extension cord made up, which judging by the meets I have been to is as close to a standard as I have seen...John         

[earwaxxer]

Or you could go with the current rage ie. the 'cotton dielectric', by wrapping the barbed wire in some old t-shirts, socks etc.

[Doc B.]

Has anyone compared cotton insulation with "naked"?

[Paul Joppa]

Wow concertina speaker cable, half tweak, half security system. I think, rather then buying it. You should sneak into your local prison or military facility and steal it  ...

"Dude, you're still using barbed wire? That's SO 19th century ... you gotta try RAZOR wire! Yeah, that's the ticket! Gillette makes a good one...  be sure to anneal it in hot blood..."

[VoltSecond]

If you have time, try it with different amps and speakers.

Some solid state amps can have stability problems with capacitive cables, where SETs may just have a different different high frequency response.

On long cable runs, speakers with impedance dips in the crossover will like a low impedance cable. Single driver speakers won't care as much.

This is one of my favorite cables.
"http://www.siteswithstyle.com/voltsecond/cat_5_speaker_cable/cat_5_spk_cable.html"

[RayP]

Thanks for the various ideas. I'm off to Australia for five weeks at the end of next week so perhaps I can find some old rusted wire by the side of the road from Brisbane to Adelaide. Since there is a cotton producing area on the way I'll just stop and gather the bits floating around by the highway. Or maybe skin from one of the hundreds of dead kangaroos we will pass along the way.

I've been thinking about the testing procedure to see if we can really hear a difference. To compare two sets of cables (A and B), play the same piece of music three times (1, 2, 3). We can hide the cables to ensure that you don't know which is being used.

Cable A will be used the first time.
Cable B will be used the third time.

Either cable A or B (random) will be used the second time.

Judging listeners will need to pick whether the cable changed between 1 and 2 or between 2 and 3.

If anybody can pick holes in this suggested arrangement, let me know.

ray

[castlesteve]

I will have a new pair of mtm speakers to debut at the meet. I can also make a couple of sets of cables using copper versus aluminium. We will need an amp good for 4 ohms. 

[RayP]

Steve, could you specify the standard length of each cable. I would suggest 6 or 8 feet.

Of course we would want somebody to bring a set of cables that were double the length of another set of cables of the same design.

So I think we need a list of comparisons that we each can volunteer to do.

A group of dimension comparisons

1 - double the length (same everything else)

2 - roughly double the resistance per foot (same everything else)

3 - double strands (similar to #2)


A group of conductor comparisons

3 - copper v aluminum (same gauge, same topology, same covering, same length)

4 - copper v aluminium (same resistance, same topology, same covering, same length)

5 - copper v steel (same gauge, same topology, same covering, same length)

6 - copper v steel (same resistance, same topology, same covering, same length)

7 - copper v silver (same gauge, same topology, same covering, same length) - somebody rich



A group of covering / insulation comparisons (pvc, teflon, cotton, air , some other mystery material)

8 - pvc v teflon

9 - pvc v cotton

10 - teflon v cotton

and so on.


A group of topology comparisons ( conductors parallel, conductors twisted, other)

And of course, the barbed v unbarbed steel wire which I volunteer to bring.

Other ideas will be welcome of course, but if you are planning to turn up, please start nominating the comparison(s) you want to do so we don't have duplication of effort. There are less than two months to go. If you have the time to construct cables for extra comparisons, please do so. I doubt just the few of us can cover all the permutations.

ray