Driver rolling: 12BH7s, E80CCs and 6SN7s

Nick Tam · 17561

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Offline Nick Tam

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on: November 12, 2012, 04:16:46 AM
Okay so this isn't really going to be a complete guide but just some impressions, I gave up rolling the 6AS7s so I looked into rolling in some different tubes for the driver side, and my 6SN7s finally arrived. I don't have many tubes with me for input side so I'll just briefly summarize how each tube type sounds.

Bear in mind that the 12BH7, E80CC and 6SN7 draws double the current of the 12AU7 so it would be a good choice to have the Speedball upgrade beforehand!

12AU7/ECC82: Nothing wrong with these but average. the 12AU7 doesn't quite stand out to the rest and is at the bottom of the hierarchy. Exceptions to this bunch are the Tesla ECC802S, Raytheon Windmill 5814A and Telefunken ECC82. From my experience, bigger tube = more air, bigger soundstage. Technicalities wise, The Tesla ECC802S is actually very capable. However, it is only one of the many good value tube amongst the E80CC and 12BH7

Telefunken ECC802S/Bugle Boy 7316: For what they're worth, the Crack is not worthy of these ultra rare tubes.

12BH7: More musical and better micro detail in general. Slightly more air but ever so slightly. Rare Sylvanias or RCAs are very refined and are oozing with micro detail and dynamic range. Brimars or Tung Sol/CBS-Hytron with long curved plates are also good but rarer than RCA and Sylvania, not superior but different tonality. The other 12BH7 such as GE and grey plate RCAs are not as good and you're better off with a premium 12AU7 instead.

Philips Goldpin E80CC/6085 (Also labeled as Valvo, Telefunken, Haltron, Siemens, and early Tungsram): Very musical and full bodied in the mid ranges. Perhaps slightly thin on the highs but a very enjoyable tube with its weighty lows. There's also a foil getter version which exhibits far better dynamic range at a higher premium.

Tungsram Nickel Pins E80CC (Also labeled as Siemens): Very dynamic and linear. My reference "Hifi" tube. Slight bass rolloff but otherwise a fantastic tube. May not be for everyone due to its neutrality but the microdetail and instrument separation is as clear as day. However, this tube is very prone to sibilance on badly recorded tracks (your experience may differ). There is also an extremely rare silver plate and silver foil-D getter version of the Tungsram but I've never had my hands on one as they are extremely rare.

6SN7: Basically something like the 12BH7 BUT comparatively more "vintage" in musicality. Perhaps not superior in sonics and technicalities but the music becomes so involving that it's a far better listen than the others. Sylvania VT231 or Tung Sol Mouse Ears are a good premium.

Sylvania 6SN7W, GEC/Marconi/Brimar CV1988/B65, Tung Sol VT-231/6SN7 Round Plates: The premium tubes of the 6SN7 family throws in technicalities, air and transparency to the mix. Far more dynamic and detailed. However, not worth throwing into the Crack. Regardless of which of these tubes mentioned at $150+ per piece the Crack will not do it justice. (It probably would if you had some good headphones like the HD800) but otherwise, I think to use this in the Crack would be an over-expenditure.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 08:30:59 PM by Nick Tam »

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Offline patm

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Reply #1 on: November 12, 2012, 09:30:05 AM
Thanks for this post! You describe what I heard as I rolled in 12au7, and 12bh7's. I don't have any 6sn7's but I settled on a NOS Tung-sol 12bh7 and I here just what you described but was not able to say.

Pat

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Offline Laudanum

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Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 01:00:28 AM
I think it's Doc B who is a fan of the 12AU7's possibilities.   I have a bunch including variants (6189, 5814 etc).    I've got some GE 5814's, a Silvertone labeled Amperex and some Philips (Herleen) that are sweet in Crack.  I think there is a 6189 in the mix somewhere as well.   And,  I havent gotten through all of my 12AU7 types yet.  I change it up between these tubes and a couple 12BH7's just for variety's sake and enjoy them all.   YMMV of course.

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Offline adamct

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Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 03:47:40 PM
I assume you are using some sort of adapter to allow you to use the 6SN7s? What kind of adapter is it? I have a 6SN7 (tube) to 6DE7 (socket) adapter from my WA6. Can I use that?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Best regards,
Adam



Offline adamct

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Reply #4 on: January 28, 2013, 09:45:42 AM
How important (if at all) is it that the two triodes in the driver tube are matched?

Best regards,
Adam



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #5 on: January 28, 2013, 10:51:15 AM
How important (if at all) is it that the two triodes in the driver tube are matched?

This is not essential to proper operation, as long as they both have enough emission to get the plate voltage down to ~80V +/- 10%, the circuit will operate.  Gain matching might be nice, but the variance of triode-to-triode gain on 12AU7's isn't that large IMO.

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Offline adamct

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Reply #6 on: January 28, 2013, 10:59:23 AM
Any reason to be concerned by a tube where they measure 11.3 vs. 14.6ma respectively?



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #7 on: January 28, 2013, 11:19:40 AM
It's hard to say much about those readings, because they are just currents.  If a tester is measuring tube currents and new/good starts at 12mA and peaks out at 15mA, then the 11.3mA reading might be suspicious.

If the tester specifies new/good to start at 8mA and end at 20mA, your readings look great!

The best way to measure a tube is to stick it in the Crack and measure the voltages at 1/5, listen to the amp for noise and distortion, and potentially put a 60Hz signal into the input and measure the AC voltage at pins 1/5.  This will give more reliable results than any tube tester I am aware of.


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Offline jimiclow

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Reply #8 on: February 01, 2013, 07:52:37 AM
It's hard to say much about those readings, because they are just currents.  If a tester is measuring tube currents and new/good starts at 12mA and peaks out at 15mA, then the 11.3mA reading might be suspicious.

If the tester specifies new/good to start at 8mA and end at 20mA, your readings look great!

The best way to measure a tube is to stick it in the Crack and measure the voltages at 1/5, listen to the amp for noise and distortion, and potentially put a 60Hz signal into the input and measure the AC voltage at pins 1/5.  This will give more reliable results than any tube tester I am aware of.

Hi Paul! Do you mean pins 1/6 instead of 1/5?

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Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #9 on: February 01, 2013, 02:08:51 PM
1 and 5 feed each of the triode plates in the driver tube, so those are where you'd want to look.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

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Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #10 on: February 01, 2013, 03:22:29 PM
PB had a LONG day, wrestling with the BeePre - he may be a little punchy.

4 and 5 are the heater ends; 1 and 6 are the plates. 2 and 7 are the grids, 3 and 8 are the cathodes, 9 is the heater centertap.

Paul Joppa


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #11 on: February 02, 2013, 08:45:04 AM
By 1 and 5, I mean terminals 1 and 5, not tube socket pins 1 and 5.

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Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 11:26:19 AM
nt

Paul Joppa


Offline dwilli852

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Reply #13 on: February 05, 2013, 02:13:50 PM
Look on ebay. I've bought and sold many different tubes there.

David Williams


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #14 on: February 05, 2013, 07:20:48 PM
There are plenty on eBay... this forum isn't usually the place for classified ads.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

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