Driver rolling: 12BH7s, E80CCs and 6SN7s

[adamct]

I was hoping to avoid ebay. Anyway, I deleted my posts above on this matter.

[adamct]

Has anyone tried one of the Psvane 12AU7s or CV181s/6SN7s (using a 6SN7 adapter)? If so, what are your impressions?

Best regards,
Adam

[Paul Birkeland]

I think the overwhelming consensus about Psvane tubes is negative.  For $75, you can get a whole pile of nice old stock 12AU7's, and listening impressions of the Psvane tubes have not been super positive either.

Heck, a used Telefunken or Mullard 12AU7 can be had for $30-40 per tube.

[adamct]

Thanks, that's good to know. To be perfectly honest with you, I haven't found that tube rolling has made a huge difference in the sound of the Crack, and in any case, it seems to sound good with everything I have tried so far...

[Grainger49]

Adam,

When you find the tube that floats your boat you will know it!  I'll say I have liked the Mullard 12AU7 variant, CV4007.  But you may not find it as pleasing.  It is a personal taste kind of thing.  Same as rolling output caps.

[adamct]

I currently have the stock 12AU7, a Brimar 12BH7, a Tungsram E80CC and a 6SN7 adapter with various 6SN7s (but haven't tried all of them yet). I also have RCA 6AS7G, Bendix 6080WB with solid graphite plates, Tung-Sol 5998, Chatham 2399, Sylvania 7236, Sylvania Gold Brand 6080, Russian 6N5S and a G.E.C. 6AS7G on the way*. And some other 6080 as well (can't remember off-hand).

Part of my problem is that A/B-ing tubes feels almost impossible to me. I listen to the amp with a given set of tubes (after letting the tubes warm up first), then turn of the amp, wait 5-10 minutes for the tubes to cool, then plug in the new tubes, wait for them to warm up, then listen to music again. The differences made by the tubes are subtle enough that it is tough to really get a sense of how they compare when there is 15 minutes in between. So far I seem to like the 5998s best, but I don't really have a preference on the driver tubes yet...

Best,
Adam

* The G.E.C. 6AS7Gs are being sent from the Ukraine. They were supposed to be delivered in 7 days. That was 11 days ago. According to the online tracking system, the tubes are still sitting in Kiev. When I asked why, I was told that the delay was because a major Ukrainian airline (Aerosvit), which was supposed to be the carrier, went bankrupt. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........................

[Paul Birkeland]

The differences made by the tubes are subtle enough that it is tough to really get a sense of how they compare when there is 15 minutes in between.

Sounds like you need a second Crack 

Just kidding, enjoy the listening!

[adamct]

Paul,

You jest, but I was actually thinking the same thing...

Best,
Adam

[Nick Tam]

I've been away for a long time... but as far as I am concerned, and mentioned many times, the tubes you use ultimately are dictated by your wallet. For one, I've long given up the 421A and GEC 6AS7G hunting. The TS5998 has enough technicalities for the job. Likewise for the input side tube. You may very well throw in a TFK 12AU7, Foil getter E80CC or even a round plate square mica TS 6SN7. At the end of the day, those tubes are better off in a higher end setup than the training shoe Crack. I just settled with the TS5998 and a nice affordable Sylvania foil 6SN7. Sometimes TS mouseears 6SN7 and graphite column 6080WBs into the mix. Spending more $$$ worth on NOS tubes worth more the Crack for that minute improvement just seems pointless as the Crack won't do rare NOS tubes justice. Not unless every single part in the Crack has been replaced with some fancy highend aftermarket stuff less the power supply that makes the Crack the utmost best OTL amp that would leave you flabbergasted if you tried to drive the HD800 with anything else.

[adamct]

"...a higher end setup than the training shoe Crack..."

When used with the HD800s, what is better than the Crack? This is a serious question. I've tried an awful lot of amps, including high-end amps, without finding better. The three candidates that spring to mind as potential candidates are the Eddie Current Zana Deux SE and possibly the Cavalli Audio Liquid Fire or Liquid Glass.

The Zana Deux sells for $2,200. The Liquid Glass is on sale for $3,500. The Liquid Fire isn't available right now. Mind you I'm not even sure that any of these is a better match than the Crack for the HD800s - I simply haven't tried them, so I can't say.

What else do you consider better than the Crack when used with the HD800s?

Best regards,
Adam

[adamct]

I should add that after building the Crack + Speedball and testing it until I was confident that what I heard was real, I sold my Woo Audio WA22, fully-balanced Beta 22, HiFiMAN EF-6 and several other amps. Given what I saved by selling those amps, even after spending freely on tubes for the Crack I still have thousands of dollars in extra cash left over. And I haven't regretted selling those amps for a minute. Not because the Crack is cheaper, but because it is better, at least when used with my HD800s.

[Grainger49]

   .  .  .    mentioned many times, the tubes you use ultimately are dictated by your wallet.  .  .  .   

Amen Brother!  I never bought the Telefunken top of the line for my FP 2.  I did spend $50 for a pair of CV4003s.  I might do better soon.

[Nick Tam]

I should add that after building the Crack + Speedball and testing it until I was confident that what I heard was real, I sold my Woo Audio WA22, fully-balanced Beta 22, HiFiMAN EF-6 and several other amps. Given what I saved by selling those amps, even after spending freely on tubes for the Crack I still have thousands of dollars in extra cash left over. And I haven't regretted selling those amps for a minute. Not because the Crack is cheaper, but because it is better, at least when used with my HD800s.

Well I was only making an assumption that there are many more higher end setups and I would honestly believe that there must be something in the higher echelon that justifies the extra spending. But since you've been there, then there is nothing else to be said if the Crack is the best OTL for the HD800.

[Doc B.]

Certainly the decision of whether the expenditure is worth it is ultimately up to the individual who spends the money. I have been at both extremes and in between, and I can't say that I found  "you get what you pay for" applies very consistently in the audio business.

Do I think we could make a better headphone amp than Crack? Yes, but it would have to cost more. Do I think we could make a more successful headphone amp than Crack? Not sure.

[mikek200]

Just got my crack ,& with my Hd800's,I am totally amazed
I've been at it for the last 7 hours,and ever piece of music I have ranging from Brahms,beethoven,to light jazz & acoustic guitar ,sound incredible

Grainger...I'm also interested in getting the Mullards.
Can you you please tel me what the difference is between the CV4007 & the CV2984 ?
Not that familiar with tubes for this amp,but after some reading,did order a Tung-Sol 5998 today,at,what I feel is a good price.

Any help/suggestions on a Mullard-lie tube will e greatly appreciated
Thanks
Mike