My take on the BeePre

johnsonad · 39287

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Offline johnsonad

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Reply #120 on: November 29, 2014, 05:51:26 AM
Last week we demo'd a First Watt M2 in the system that unfortunately didn't make the cut.  It did though shake up the system some and the end result is fantastic.  Change can be a good thing and my system needed it.

The BeePre hadn't been updated since we switched from the 19's to the Altec 755A's with Rythmik subs.  These little drivers are like microscopes back into your system and until last night, we didn't feel like they were right.  First, attached are a couple of photos of the Dynamat Extreme applied to the base and the bottom of the chassis plate.  It makes a difference but takes a lot of work to get it on there. 

A wondering trip to get to the end.... Tubes.... We had been using the EML solid plates.  If you have read through this thread, it took a bit of work to get them to work right but they have a special sound to them.  For fun, we took the EML mesh plates and plugged them in and they sounded better, more correct.  We were both impressed but they will not work in the BeePre and they felt distant, like listening through something.  One last attempt at tubes ended up with the Russian 6C4C's back in and they sounded nice and as I've said before, are the least microphonic of any tube I've tested.  Not perfect but better than the EML's.  To fill the void of the M2, I dug out the old rebuilt Quad 303 so I could revisit the Paramount-ish amps.  The Quad bested the M2 (and my Paramount-ish amps) in every way and really took control of the speakers with a beautiful sound.  I guess having been designed to drive 57's, it can drive and damp about anything, including the 755A's in WE boxes. 

The EML's draw more current than the original WE tube and I had to mod the BeePre to accommodate them.  For the life of me I couldn't find the 8 Ohm resistors and in the spirit of trying something new, I ordered some Caddock thick film resistors (4 Ohms) to fill the void of the paralleled 8 Ohm resistors.  Attached is a bad photo of their installation which went well.  The Caddocks are 30 watt rated but need a heat sink.  I drilled a couple of holes in the plate and super glued them in.  They put off some heat but I can still hold my fingers at the top of the heat sink for 2 seconds.  I need to borrow my buddies heat gun again to get some real numbers off of the fins, but they are well within the temp specs and the chassis plate is much, much cooler now.  I didn't hear an immediate difference in sound and didn't expect to.  This was more to see if it would work.

Now updated, the system was sounding better but still a little off and painful for long sessions.  Last night I pulled a Grainger and starting testing output caps on test leads.  I had been using KBG 10uF's and first up tried the Rike Audio PIO's.  This actually wasn't an improvement but did change the sound.  Next up, a pair of Panasonic 10uF that had been in a different build.  They sounded better than the Rike's but nothing to write home about.  Last up was a pair of Auricap 5uF's.  These sounded great!  A remarkable improvement over all of the others tested.  I got my wife to actually sit down and listen to them and even she agreed it was better but to me they still were not quite there.  So again following Grainger's lead, I bypassed them with a pair of V-Cap Teflons 0.047uF that were sitting around and that really took it to the next level.  That little bypass cap added considerable depth and clarity to the sound.  We listened for a couple of hours after that and this is the best those little 755's have sounded to date!

Change is good and it's nice to have a stash of random caps to try.  I can only imagine what's it like for guys and gals who can't make mods to their own gear.....

« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 05:53:05 AM by johnsonad »

Aaron Johnson


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #121 on: November 29, 2014, 06:12:23 AM
It is a sickness but it keeps us safe and off the streets.

Glad to be of help/inspiration.


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Offline Hank Murrow

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Reply #122 on: November 29, 2014, 07:26:02 AM
Seconded, Aaron;

All my Custom BH pieces have been outfitted with V-caps(Cu & Sn) and I love them. Got to qualify this by saying that they were built by Paul Birkeland from the start with them, so I have not heard anything else in my system, though we did a favorable comparison in the BH big system in Poulsbo. I am eager to hear the BH DAC with my Oppo DVP95 when the DAC arrives in February.

Cheers, Hank in Eugene



Offline johnsonad

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Reply #123 on: December 20, 2014, 01:15:39 PM
I've been enjoying the BeePre and the system more than ever with this tube and cap combo.  To get it right I ordered a pair of 200v 10uF Auricap XO's and a pair of 0.1uF V-Cap Teflons to replace the 0.047uF V-Caps and 5uF Auricaps (600v) that are in there currently.  My break in rig started acting up and I'm surprised it didn't cause a fire.  I put the new caps into the BeePre today and started the burn in process over again using a wave file through the Oppo to the BeePre on repeat.  It's going to take a while but these new caps fit a lot better then the 600v version.

I also picked up a pair of 40's Ken Rad double flat plate 6B4G's to compare against the Russian tubes.  They are significantly more microphonic.  Tapping on the BeePre base causes a boom through one channel of the speaker.  Thankfully as long as I'm not thumping on the preamp they sound good but not any better than the Russian tubes rather, quite the same.  For the money, those Russian tubes are hard to beat!

More to follow as they break in.  Thankfully those V-Cap leads are so stiff that I zip tied the Auricaps to them and the stand off quite nicely.

Aaron Johnson


Offline HF9

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Reply #124 on: December 20, 2014, 04:56:25 PM
Neat idea using the Dynamat Xtreme to dampen the wood frame. I always keep plenty of the stuff in my workroom, usually for headphones and speakers, however I never thought of this type of application. Do you think it made any difference? 

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Offline johnsonad

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Reply #125 on: December 20, 2014, 05:51:25 PM
I do feel it made a difference as did the tall Herbies Tender Feet and placing the BeePre on the slab floor. Every little bit helps!

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paully

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Reply #126 on: December 21, 2014, 03:33:53 AM
Interesting.  I have noticed absolutely no microphonics in my Bee spree using JJ 300B and from posts it seems the tubes chosen seem to make a big difference.  It's not like a circuit can be microohonic, right?  So it has to be the tubes?  Are 300B more prone to microphonics?  I noticed some 7N7 in my old FPIII were much more prone to it.



Offline johnsonad

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Reply #127 on: December 21, 2014, 04:32:01 AM
It's the tubes.  Some are more prone than others. 

Aaron Johnson


Offline badman

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Reply #128 on: December 22, 2014, 07:57:07 PM
It might be buried in the thread somewhere- where did you source those knobs?  They're mega-cool!



Offline johnsonad

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Reply #129 on: December 23, 2014, 03:30:26 AM
They are from a 1920's RCA HAM radio. You can get reproductions on EPay or the Audioasylum Trader.

Aaron Johnson


Offline aragorn723

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Reply #130 on: December 23, 2014, 01:09:31 PM
Hi Aaron,

How did you mount the caps?  Looks like a standoff with one of those zip ties that has a loop you can screw into?

Thanks

Dave



Offline johnsonad

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Reply #131 on: December 23, 2014, 02:50:56 PM
No mounting. The leads on the V-caps are stuff solid core. I zip tied the Auricaps to the V-Caps. Nothing else needed.

So far so bad on break in. I'm listening to them everyday and they are slowly improving. It could be the value changes but I wonder if the new XO Auricaps sound different from the old style.

Aaron Johnson


Offline aragorn723

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Reply #132 on: December 23, 2014, 03:52:06 PM
Hmm so i'm guessing they aren't very heavy?  I hear the teflons take a long time to burn-in (200+ hours) so hang in there.  They will pay off in the end!

Dave



Offline johnsonad

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Reply #133 on: December 23, 2014, 04:21:11 PM
No, the XO's are very light.  I've been using V-Caps in other builds for a while now.  It's long process but usually worth it. 

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #134 on: December 28, 2014, 09:36:10 AM
The Auricap XO's and V-Caps were removed and replaced by the older style Auricap (5uF 600v) and 0.047uF V-Cap bypass that originally sounded good.  The XO's don't sound as good to my ears in this system as the older caps do.  The downfall was securing them as these 600v caps are huge!  Mine are strapped down with good ole dental floss to whatever I could secure them to and keep them from leaning against the heat sinks.  It's not pretty but it works :)

I measured the voltages of the 6B4's that are in there with the 4 Ohm resistors.  Like Xavier experienced, both pairs of tubes are current hungry.  The Kenrads are 6% off at 5.93v/5.87v and the 6C4C's are 8% off at 5.76v/5.79v.  I've got a lower valued resistor on order and will report back the findings once they have been retested. 

Aaron Johnson