My take on the BeePre

[mp9]

I'm assuming the Neotech wire johnsonad used is of higher quality then the supplied 24AWG Cat 5, and he could've stuck with a 24AWG gauge (Neotech or other), wire, is there a appreciable reason for going to a 20AWG hook up wire?

20g is as small as I've been able to get it with Teflon coating and I happened to have 50' or so of it sitting in a drawer. It was a pain to work with but not horrible.

I was too lazy to build it twice and instead used some parts and wire I've had good experiences with in the past.  I doubt there will be much sonic difference and the only way to trial it would be to A/B it against another BeePre.

I'm looking into possible upgrades that i'd rather not have to do twice, trying to decide if some of my ideas are worth the money or if it's better spent elsewhere on the project.

I came across Neotech 24awg Silver/teflon wire for $2.95/foot (big diff from $9.45/foot @ partsconnex), and am trying to decide first if it's the real deal and secondly, if its worth doing. About how many feet of the 20awg did you use?

Also been considering teflon tube sockets, again i don't know the advantages over the kits stock ceramic tube sockets.

I'm going to stick with the two supplied 10uf caps for the build as they won't be too complicated to swap out latter if i read of good benefits  of such.

Also and strictly for cosmetics, been wondering about having the top plate and transformer bell ends chrome, nickel or copper plated, of course i may get sticker shock with that one, lol.

[johnsonad]

The price for the Neotech seems way off. If it isn't a reputable seller you may want to think twice on that.

The tube sockets supplied are great and I can't think of a reason to swap them. Besides a lot is attached to those sockets and an alternative may not work well with the design.  I've never understood fancy tube sockets, they need to fit the design and hold strong tension on the tube pins.

Plating is expensive. If you get a good price, let us know where.

I used roughly 17 feet of wire give or take a foot or two.

[Paul Birkeland]

I find the Teflon 4 pin sockets to be pretty tough to work with.  If you're going to use them, you have to plan to be able to get your pliers around them once in a while to tighten them up.  This works poorly with the BeePre though.

There's a gold plated version of the stock socket on PCX if you want to add a little bling and know that you wont' introduce unpredictable consequences...

[mp9]

- thanks C.B., i'll definitely skip that idea.

- johnsonad, so far i've found the neotech 24awg silver at Take Five Audio for ~ $7.50/foot http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=845 a little closer but still far from the Ebay sellers $2.95/foot http://www.ebay.com/itm/370719150903?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Hard to imagine the guy not selling out of his stock at that $$ if it is what he says it is? The guy claims to be selling his old stock. Btw, have you seen the Audio Note factory tour video, my guess, Peter Q would've bought up the entire spool had he not cornered the market years ago - (for your entertainment),  http://www.avshowrooms.com/Audio_Note_Co.html

Anyway the guy has good feedback, customers seem satisfied with their purchases of the silver neotech wire, idk, maybe it takes a metallurgist to discern the difference??

Nothing specific on Audio asylum's Shady Lane forum, unless it's this guy at it again - http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=shady&n=4847&highlight=neotech&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Dshady%26searchtext%3Dneotech%2B

[earwaxxer]

I have used this site for my wire - great service no complaints.
http://www.homegrownaudio.com/solid-core-silver-wire/

[corndog71]

I have used this site for my wire - great service no complaints.
http://www.homegrownaudio.com/solid-core-silver-wire/

Seconded!  I've been a fan for years.  Easy to bend and strip and sounds great.  Their copper wire is no slouch either.

[johnsonad]

Is your heart set on silver?  Do you run all silver through your system already?  I've always considered wire as a method of tone control in some respect and could never justify or afford an all silver system.  CAT 5 is suprisingly good cable.  At least one member here used it for his interconnects and I dream of owning a system as nice as his someday.

[mp9]

- well not exactly. My amp is wired with silver but lacks silver opt's etc. I've yet to play around with silver for the wide band driver cabling, my current drivers i most interested in voice coils are not silver although i have others that are.

I don't think Cat 5 is bad either. Been using both half of a Cat 5 plenum wire per - & +, as well as a single strand per of Cat 5 plenum wire for the speaker cables more then the Kimber 8tc i have. Only thats easy to change, doubt i'd ever bother rewiring the bee if i didn't have to for other reasons.

[johnsonad]

I feel ya and that's why I wired it once with the Neotech. 40 plus solder points is enough the first time around

[tsingle999]

In my limited experience i have always preferred the sound of copper over silver. Copper seems to help the low end and silver the high end from the experiments i've tried.

[johnsonad]

After capacitor experiments in my S.E.X. amp and a thread stating I could use a lower valued output cap, today I replaced the 10uF Audiocaps with a pair of 5 uF Auicaps I had sitting around. These will need break in but from the beginning there seems to be more top end and air than before.  I'm gojng to run them in 100 hours and report back. My hope is that they will allow me to get the EML's back in and even out what was missing before.

[johnsonad]

Time for some updates on the BeePre project.  I've been having fun with tubes and output capacitors.  The tubes I'll rank based on personal and system preference which coincides with a buddy who did the listening tests with me over the course of a months worth of Saturdays. 

1. EML 300B
2. EH 300B Gold Grid
3. Russian 6C4C
4. Sovetek 6B4G
5. TJ 300B mesh plates

There is just something special about these EML's.  Both Mike and I felt mesmerized every time we put them back in the system.  They are the tube for me (so far!).  Maybe I'll try the EML 300B mesh plate once PJ figures out the filament supply for 1.5 amps. Now getting them to the correct filament voltage took significant trial and error.  With the Parts Connexion sale and a few more Mills values I finally got them within less than 1%.  For my BeePre this took a 27 Ohm (4.97v) and a 33 Ohm (4.99v) resistor.  These tubes took a good 100 hours to sound nice so if you have a pair sitting around or are thinking of taking the plunge, let them burn in!

Cap rolling can have a significant effect also.  So far in full values I've tried the Audiocap 10uF and some Russian PIO's 12uF.  I've bypassed them with ClarityCap 1uF, Russian FT-1 0.01uF, Russian FT-2 0.1uF and Russian SSG-3 0.1uF caps.  I also briefly tried a pair of Auricap 5uF which didn't work out that well into a 10k Ohm load impedance.  Today I put in a pair of Jupiter 10uF caps which still need to break in.  I've found the Audiocaps to be rolled off but to do well with voices and the lower mid range.  There is just something not quite right about them.  Byassing did change the sound but not enough to give a complete package.  Don't get me wrong, I like the sound of the Audiocaps and they have spent longer in the BeePre than any other cap so far.  The PIO's were in for a week.  I bypassed them with all of the Russian teflons and the silver mica caps.  They sounded better on their own and quite good.  They would have stayed longer if the Jupiter's didn't arrive.  Maybe not the end all be all in detail or dynamics but very nice over all and more correct than the Audiocaps.  The Jupiter's have a couple of hours on them so far but I can tell already they are going to be special.  They took a little work to fit and to isolate them from the heat sinks but so far so good.   FYI, I emailed Jupiter about the flat stack HT caps and they are conservatively rated at 70 C, 158 F.   

I continue to be ever impressed by the BeePre. This the best preamp I've owned to date. More to follow

[earwaxxer]

Nice review Aaron! - Thank you! Keep in comin!

[johnsonad]

Thanks Eric!

Another topic to add and that's microphonics. In my experice so far I've found the best sound is achieved by the lowest microphonic tube. So far the best I've experienced is the 6c4c. I can bang hard on the deck plate with very little resonance or ringing to the speakers (lead weights only). Second are the EML's. The lead rings, Herbies dampeners and sorbathane footers all help to some degree. I've got some Tenderfeet and other rings on order to see if they help anymore then what I already have. This design is so sensitive that to my ears, the more you can lessen the ring, the better the overall sound. If you look at my ranking, I put the EH above the 6c4c and that's so far due to the lack of break in of the tubes. The EH's have a horrible ring but somehow they still sound great. More to follow as the 6c4c's break in along with the Jupiter's.

[Paul Joppa]

Yeah, the importance of microphonics is a really curious issue. We sidelined the Quickie for years because of them, based on just a few minutes listening. But once we did more listening and actually put it out there everyone (us included) started to hear it's virtues as well. BeePre was the other way around; we all agreed it had the magic in spite of its microphonics.

Are microphonics, like ultra-low measured distortion, another false god of our idolatry?  :^)