Dac recommendation s??

[mikek200]

Using the crack with speedball upgrade.
HD800's,with tung-sol 5998,and a few siemens 12au7's
Can somone give me a few suggestions,for upgrading my dac,right now I have the schiit bifrost.
Would like to keep it around 1K,or,less if possible.

Tnx
Mike

[earwaxxer]

Hey Mike - My first question would be - what characteristics about the Bifrost sound is it that you dont like? - I guess, more specifically, in comparison to other DAC's that you have experience with, what is it that you are looking for that the Bifrost come us short. The other side of the question would be, what are you using as a front end to the DAC? A PC through USB, CD player etc. The Bifrost is a good DAC. I have the Gungnir. I love it, and probably will never replace it. With that said, I use an outboard USB to SPDIF DD converter in the Wrd4snd uLink. A good DD interface is essential for clocking etc.  If you are using the USB converter in the Bifrost, you could do better with something like the uLink. Plus with the uLink you can run it on battery to improve the sound even further.

I have done a ton of research on DAC's in this price range. I can say that the Gungnir will most likely sound significantly better than the Bifrost, but I'm not sure If that would be the best bang for buck upgrade, because the house sound will be very similar to what you have. If you are running balanced than I think it would be a worthwhile upgrade. Tons of DAC choices out there though right now. To take a LARGE step up from the Bifrost IMO you are going to be looking over $1K, probably around $2K.

[mikek200]

Hi Eric-thanks for your reply.

Recently,I trimmed my audio setup.
Sold my Mjolnir,Gungnir,and many headphones...thinking that I will upgrade my gear ,after the Schiit signature gear comes out..

Now that I've finally found the amp ,that imho,work perfectly with my HD800's----Crack/w/speedball....,I picked up a bifrost from Steve from Q-audio,who gave it to me,at such a low price,it was almost a gift.
I have no complaints about my current setup...but it was suggested to me,that I might?,want to consider this dac,and that it might?.give me "outstanding "sq from the crack

  http://www.nosminidac.nl/Octave_English.html

Honestly,I've been totally blown away with the Crack,and my current tubes..it is by far the finest SQ I've heard..with my genres of music.
So,to answer your questions...,looks like I'searching for something even better...LOL
Or just  greedy for the perfect sound....thought maybe some crackheads, have a few ideas??

[earwaxxer]

No prob Mike! - I'm kind of a DAC freak.. I was going to say the Octave or Hex (Metrum's new SOTA DAC), if you have the bux. I would get the Hex in a heartbeat if I had the coin, and never look back, but I think you get to splitting hairs in the rarefied air of todays 'high end' DAC's. Thats why I will most likely never get rid of my Gungnir. Not because its so fantastic, but there are other ways to get better sound. Like I said above, using USB, there are some very exciting gains to be had with a good USB to SPDIF converter.

[mikek200]

Well,my bifrost actually has a usb connection,but I haven't even tried this..
Maybe I should try this option..think I might have to contact Schiit & update the software.

Hex,you're joking right?
Might go with the Octave1 though,???

Mike

[Jim R.]

Hi Mike,

I had the original Octave and am due to get a brand new Octave II as soon as tmy dealer gets the next shipment in -- soon.  The original was great, but the II is somewhat better in a number of ways, but definitely get the USB interface.  This is no typical usb interface and believe me there is absolutely nothing to be gained, and some to be lost going through a usb -> spdif converter -- more cables, more power supplies, actually less isolation from the receiver section of the dac, and more.  You also will need any type of usb isolation device, battery powered usb cable etc. -- it makes no difference on this receiver board.

The designer of this dac is calling it the Hex Jr as it fits into a single box instead of the two boxes of the original octave, has no power umbilical, has a redesigned dac board (essentially half a Hex wut without the balanced output capability), better receiver section, lower jitter, and some other improvements, and a very, very low noise floor.  It is also a guaranteed 24/192 though usb and coax (still 24/96 via optical), and truly is a very unique NOS R2R dac with a very smooth, analog sound.  These commercial telecomm dac chips are rated to 15 mhz sampling rates, but there is no messing with the incoming pcm data stream at all -- it goes directly to the dac chips with no internal conversion to and from dsd like so many other dac chips.

Yes, it's $400 over your target, but it will be well worth it, and should be a super sweet match with the hd-800s and the crack.

I unfortunately decided to sell my hd-800s as i too have been thinning out and putting all I can muster into my main system, and that meant getting rid of some headphones and such, and also because I really like the hifiman he-400s and want to upgrade to the 500s.  There are tradeoffs for sure, but to me the hifimans just rank a bit higher on overall musicality, if not as good on the fireworks and soundstaging.  Of course I still think extremely highly of the hd-800s, but for now, the amount of time I do or can listen to them does not justify their sitting around collecting dust.

If you can swing it, do give the Octave II a good look, along with the usb receiver option and you could be set for a very, very long time.  I'm told it is an upgrade from the original Octave, which has been my favorite dac so far and easily went head to head with some uber expensive dacs from a certain well known British company. :-)

Good luck,

Jim

[mikek200]

Jim
Thanks for your reply,& info...

I am really up in the air about this dac..
I received an offer  to buy ,the octave 1,used,for $800.00,and almost pulled the trigger on them?
Now,I'm glad I didn't..tnx again.

Question:
Have you considered the he-6's,I owned them for a while,and drove with emotiva mini amp,a truly wonderfully headphone,but could not justify,owning both, the he-6's & the HD800's..so..?

I must say,I've been in this hobby for about 18 months,& it has sucked my wallet dry on many occasions...
The Crack,,Hd800's ,tung-sol 5998 & Siemen tube have given my music a new definition .

Tnx again with the Octave info...
Mike

[manis]

I was considering the Metrum Octave MKII myself and might end up there one day, but decided to go with something else as a significant upgrade to my cheap ass HRT Music Streamer II. Maybe it isn't worth much, but I have the gut feeling that a low noise floor and adequate power supply are instrumental to good sound.

If you are going to play music from a computer only, then you might want to consider the Ciunas DAC as an option: https://sites.google.com/site/jkciunas/shhaudio (USB only)
It runs off LiFePo4 batteries.

Its predecessor, the JKDAC32, punched well above its weight and the Ciunas is a further development of the ultra-low noise USB DAC design.

Here's an impression: http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38218#p38218

The general consensus on forums seems to be:

-it's dead quiet
-good instrument separation
-musical
-good HF & LF extension
-excellent value for money

It's 550 EUR, which was well within my comfort zone just to try it out, and has a 20 day trial period: return and refund without hassle. If you like, I can post impressions when mine comes in the mail, hopefully within the next 10 days.

[Jim R.]

Hi Mike,

I'd recommend giving Fred Crane at stereodesk.com a shout -- he's a dealer, a great guy and won't steer you wrong.

Believe me, I know the goodness that is the Crack/hd-800s and the TS 5998/WWE421 but something had to give, though I'm sure I'll probably misss the hd-800s/crack combination in the future and will probably get another pair.  Right now cleaning up the power on my speaker system is the top priority, other than the dac.  If I hadn't just bought an equitech balanced power unit, then I would have bought the Hex.

My wife is getting more and more work, so maybe one of these days my allowance will get an iincrease :-).  But next cans will be the he-500s to pair with the s.e.x. 2.1 in balanced mode.  Also reported to be a super nice combination.

Manis,

I've never heard of thes dacs you speake of , but will give them a look.  I have to say that if the dac is based on a sabr chip, chances are I wouldn't like it in the long run., at least not in my main system -- I really find a well-done NOS dac to be my favorite, but then again I listen to probably 90-95% acoustic music, so bear that in mind.  That said, I'd certainly like to hear what you think of it -- always trying to find as many data points on dacs that I can.

Take care,

Jim

[mikek200]

Manis,Jim
Thanks for your replies.

The thing is,I'm not so sure I wan to go the route with the usb to spdif converter,when its almost 1/2 the price of a new octave dac{slighly less,depending on model.
From what I'm being told & some articles I've read,say,the the dac is the second most important part of the audio chain--please correct me,if I'm wrong.

Jim ,,I'm very partial to acoustic guitar music myself.,but,not sure the wife will appreciate a major purchase now,of a $1300 dac
But,...this Octave2 ,might be my endgame ,from what I'm reading about it..
A little hesitant to call Fred Crane,because I'e already sold myself on this dac,and Fred will just a ssist in pulling out my creditcard out of my wallet
OhHell,let me just order the GD thing ,& get it over with.
Lentil soup for dinner-next 6 months.
Its all your fault Jim!!-LOL
Mike

[earwaxxer]

Hey Mike - personally - IMO - from what I have read - the jury is not out on the USB conversion technique/protocol to beat all protocols. That is still being worked out. Berkeley Audio believes that it should be done in a separate converter. I rest my case there. I think its a safer bet to invest in the SOTA DAC due jour and follow the USB tech as it advances. I would be much more comfortable investing in the Alpha USB from Berkeley for example, and using my favorite DAC due jour, than putting all my eggs in one basket. Like I said, there is much to be learned. The Empirical Audio Off Ramp being another good example. I think its wrong to assume that ANYONE has the USB protocol perfected. Just my opinion.

[Jim R.]

Hey Eric,

When the first reviews of the Octave II come out I think you'll see that's exactly what Metrum has done -- a completely separate usb-> spdif converter, but with a few key differences over the external box typpes:

1) absolutely no electrical connection to the dac itself and...

2) even more importantly no random crap shoot as to whether your spdif cable will actually be of the correct impedance for perfect square wave transmission between the devices.  Almost none of them are, and this makes for extra jitter that is often not effectively dealt with.  In fact, with RCA plugs and sockets is practically impossible.  I have no idea why te industry accepts anything but proper 75 ohm BNCs and such, and it is a mystery to me why they don't include a tuning feature like that on scope probes where there is a variable capacitor in the barrel of the probe that lets you adjust the ipedance of the cable for a perfect square wave.  You could tune it by ear, or a detection circuit could be subbed for a scope display and when you've reached the optimum tuning, a light would light and then you leave it alone.  This inherent cabling issue in all spdif connections is why I generally avoid them for the highest performance setups.  Aside from that is the ongoing propagation of the myth that usb was never meant to transmit digital audio.  Enough said.

BTW, the usb implementation in the Octave II is nearly the same as the Hex, which has been one of the very few interfaces that has seemed to not benefit at all from usb power cleaner boxes, externally pbattery powered usb cables, etc., and I'm sure the Octave will be just as good in this regard.

-- Jim

[earwaxxer]

Hey Jim - agreed to above - I am also a huge fan of the Metrum gear, and the Octave ll seems to be a home run. Also agreed that BNC is the way to go for true 75 ohm impedence. I use BNC on my kit. I like the idea of being able to mix and match. I have found several of my system shortcomings from that process.

[manis]

I've never heard of thes dacs you speake of , but will give them a look.  I have to say that if the dac is based on a sabr chip, chances are I wouldn't like it in the long run., at least not in my main system -- I really find a well-done NOS dac to be my favorite, but then again I listen to probably 90-95% acoustic music, so bear that in mind.  That said, I'd certainly like to hear what you think of it -- always trying to find as many data points on dacs that I can.

I believe the DAC chip in the Ciunas DAC is a Texas Instruments PCM5102, which is said to be extremely quiet.  http://www.ti.com/product/pcm5102

At 550 EUR and a zero hassle return policy I was happy to give this rather humble looking device a try. It should tear my HRT Music Streamer II apart quite comfortably, judging from reviews. On another forum it was described as follows:

"(...) to be brief,the sound is atmospheric, detailed and more three-dimensional. Instruments are more clearly positioned and are more musical in themselves. The total sound is very involving and enjoyable. Stuff like cymbals give a fantastic smash, a real highlight. "


http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2079&sid=d88a7019bd2929a6a4cf35873a89a816&start=10

Hopefully I will receive the DAC next week. I'll be sure to post my experiences.