Speaker upgrade confusion

adamct · 15273

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Offline corndog71

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Reply #15 on: August 20, 2013, 05:35:45 AM
If you possibly can, attend a regional audio show. RMAF would probably be the first choice, but if distance is an issue there has been a show in New York the past few years. And there are several others like AXPONA in Chicago and the shows in LA, SF and the DC area.

Yes the rooms are less than ideal. Yes, some guys don't take the effort to properly set up their system. But even so you can get a huge (sometimes overwhelming) sampling of what's out in the market these days in a single weekend. You might not find your dream speaker, but you might go a long way in narrowing your choices.

Exactly!  You don't know what you have or want until you can hear a wide variety of systems to put it all in context.  I was at Axpona and heard several speakers I could love and live with but sadly most of which were way out of my price range.  But it also gave me the perspective that I would have to spend over $3K to beat my $600 open baffle speakers!  That made me feel good because I got the best speakers out there for my money. 

The world was made for those not cursed with self-awareness.

Rob


Offline adamct

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Reply #16 on: August 20, 2013, 06:01:20 AM
What are your open-baffle speakers? I've been trying to learn more about open-baffle speakers as a possible middle ground between planars and box speakers...



Offline corndog71

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Reply #17 on: August 20, 2013, 06:41:14 AM
What are your open-baffle speakers? I've been trying to learn more about open-baffle speakers as a possible middle ground between planars and box speakers...

Open baffle means the speaker is mounted to a baffle with no box on the back side to control the rear wave.  Now you can't just mount any speaker this way.  It has to have the right specs for it to function properly.

Danny Richie of GR Research has designed several open baffle speakers.  I have a pair of the X-Statiks he designed for AV123 which has long gone out of business.  I even have a matching open baffle center channel speaker!

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FX-Statik%2520Upgrades%2F323ceae1.jpg&hash=94562d4f85f05237373a0af7df8986b87ff69030)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FX-Statik%2520Upgrades%2F4c8cc419.jpg&hash=c786830d1ee3d0489b6afd0b23a98842a52d1b32)

Danny still has driver & crossover kits of these on the cheap and all you have to do is make the cabinets.  He also sells kits of the same basic design but with higher quality ribbon tweeters.

His most recent project is for a new company called Serenity Acoustics.  The Super 7 uses all ribbon drivers for the mids and highs with servo-controlled open baffle subs bringing the bottom end.  Only $20K/pr. 8)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgr-research.com%2Fpics%2Fs77.jpg&hash=576143ea7f9455a7fdeee79ac17805c9e53d3c44)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gr-research.com%2Fpics%2Fsilverpair3.jpg&hash=50058cd3561c15337bfe7965c62d995c03b92fb6)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 06:47:47 AM by corndog71 »

The world was made for those not cursed with self-awareness.

Rob


Offline adamct

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Reply #18 on: August 20, 2013, 07:43:11 AM
Thanks! The OB-7 looks intriguing indeed....

 :)
Adam



4krow

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Reply #19 on: August 20, 2013, 07:56:49 AM
 Fortunately, there are a lot more choices for OB now. Guys both of those systems are incredible looking. No doubt, they excel in sound as well. Here is may attempt at about $1,800/pr. I used a flash for the photo, so the wood is actually darker and the black paint is gloss, but not shimmer type finish.



Offline corndog71

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Reply #20 on: August 20, 2013, 09:34:40 AM
Those look cool.  Although the sides look almost furry or like they're carpeted.

The world was made for those not cursed with self-awareness.

Rob


Offline earwaxxer

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Reply #21 on: August 20, 2013, 12:03:25 PM
Hey Rob - I'm captivated by those blue monster tube mono's! What are they? Whatever they are I can't afford um!

Eric
Emotiva XPA-2, Magnepan MMG (mod), Quickie (mod), JRiver, Wyrd4sound uLink, Schiit Gungnir, JPS Digital power cord, MIT power cord, JPS Labs ultraconductor wire throughout, HSU sub. powered by Crown.


4krow

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Reply #22 on: August 20, 2013, 02:18:39 PM
  Rob, Yah, I used a clear coating over the black. The coating has reflective qualities and really messes with flash photography. I'll get some new photo's and post them.



Offline matthewmckay

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Reply #23 on: August 20, 2013, 03:15:36 PM
"From what I understand, Zaph Audio is well-respected when it comes to speaker designs, the kit uses well-regarded components (including two  Scan-Speak Revelator drivers per speaker), the crossover (particularly the upgraded version) seems to use pretty good components, etc. Are commercial speakers that cost, say $8,000+ really going to be better? Or would I be paying for $5,000 worth of veneer and marketing, but getting inferior components and sound quality? I know that good components are not, by themselves, a guarantee of sound quality, but it isn't like this is some cockamamie design from an amateur hackjob..."


Hi Adam,

FWIW...  I built a pair of zaph ZD5's last winter.  I went with solid maple for the enclosures (spent some serious coin on my woodworking setup) and got the crossovers pre-built from madisound.  I am using a gainclone I built (LM3875) with a foreplay III in front of it as my spare-bedroom/theater/gaming setup.  I originally planned to put these speakers in the main setup in the living room, but they kick so much ass for watching movies/listening to internet radio/playing call of duty that I can't bring myself to move them into the other room.  They have a spooky 3-dimensional sound and I have caught myself jumping out of my seat several times when I hear footsteps or door-knocks behind my head. 

They are expensive... and a lot of work (if you have never built your own cabinets)... but knowing what I know now, it would be worth paying an extra $500 to do the work for you.  They pretty much destroy anything else that I have come acrossed... would love to hear the ZRT's as well.

-matt



Offline adamct

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Reply #24 on: August 20, 2013, 03:28:58 PM
Thanks, Matt. I am definitely consider a pair of Zaph speakers, although those open-baffle OB7s are intriguing, too...



Offline corndog71

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Reply #25 on: August 20, 2013, 03:36:32 PM
Hey Rob - I'm captivated by those blue monster tube mono's! What are they? Whatever they are I can't afford um!

Those are a custom-built pair of 280 watt monoblocks built by Gary Dodd of Dodd Audio.  They weigh about 275 pounds each. 
19"x33"  The output tranny alone weighs 65 pounds!

Danny had them up for sale for a while at $40K.  I think he's stuck with them. ;D
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 03:40:13 PM by corndog71 »

The world was made for those not cursed with self-awareness.

Rob


4krow

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Reply #26 on: August 20, 2013, 03:38:15 PM
 Speakers cost not related, can be all over the map as to what they can do sonically. I have felt sorry for a few gents who laid down serious coin just to get some nice looking furniture that really wasn't impressive otherwise. Price is no guarantee of quality. It's not fair.



Offline earwaxxer

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Reply #27 on: August 20, 2013, 04:12:38 PM
I think Matt has the idea... Build your own. There is nothing to these speakers these days. Its all crap. The crossovers.. forget about it! What I did, even back in the mid 70's, is have a cabinet maker build the cabinets. I built the crossover and installed the whole thing. In the day it was a "Speakerlab". You can MUCH better today with drivers right off Parts Express, and crossover components from Madison Sound or PartsConnection etc.

Eric
Emotiva XPA-2, Magnepan MMG (mod), Quickie (mod), JRiver, Wyrd4sound uLink, Schiit Gungnir, JPS Digital power cord, MIT power cord, JPS Labs ultraconductor wire throughout, HSU sub. powered by Crown.


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #28 on: August 20, 2013, 04:56:34 PM
FWIW, I don't think it's possible to sell a complete speaker in a store for less than 10 times the cost of the drivers plus crossover. At least, not if you hope to stay in business.

Paul Joppa


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #29 on: August 21, 2013, 11:20:23 AM
I'm going to admit up front that I didn't read all the posts.  I read the OP and then marked it unread till I had time to form a response.

I will go with "it is a planar sound thing."  I sold Magnepan/Magneplanars in the 70s.  I own Servo Statik-I Electrostatics, broken of course, but still have them.  So they impressed you and should have for the reasons you stated.  You like the strengths of Planar speakers. 

There is something to the planar sound.  They have great dynamics, detail and wide deep imaging/soundstage.  Most dynamic speakers don't do that, or do it easily.  It is an "effortless" sound from planars.  Then there is the power requirements.  Electrostatics need a big voltage swing, little current.  The Magnetic Planar speakers need a lot of current.  Well, you don't get anything for free.

It takes a lot of design, engineering and trial and error to make a box speaker not "boxy."  I have owned a few.  Heard a few more.  But most box speakers sound boxy to me.  And once you hear it you are no longer a virgin.  You can't go back.

Have you heard the Blumenstein speakers?  The box is minimal, the imaging and soundstage are right up there with a planar speaker.  If not, where are you?   (You have probably posted your location but I'm old and I forget what I had for breakfast yesterday)  They have the immediacy, intimacy, dynamics, imaging/soundstage that you have heard in planars.  Not to mention, I have mine aimed straight ahead.  When I have guests I often sit a foot or two to the outside of one speaker or another.  I hear amazing soundstage in a position that any other box speaker I have owned would collapse to mono.  If I were you I would go with 30 day return offered by Clark and Molly.  Go for the big subs/amps and Orcas.

As for the Madisound kit, we are back at you are no longer a virgin.  You have tasted the Planar sound and I doubt that it will deliver it.  I may be wrong, and have been too often in my life. 

Ok, I jumped all around but I think I covered the first post.  Now I will go back and read all the other comments.