Volume output - Reduction vs. generic consumer preamp

[bblood]

Before I invested in a S.E.X. amp, my speakers were powered by a decent TEAC receiver. My phonograph had a good, full, sound using the built in preamp and I could get a loud volume output to my speakers.

I now have the sex amp with a generic (Behringer PP400) preamp between my phonograph and amplifier. My problem is now the sound is smaller, and thinner, and I have to turn my amp up to maximum volume to get an average volume playback.

My question is, would the Reduction give me much more volume then then Behringer PP400 preamp?
Is my bottleneck the lower-output s.e.x. amplifier?
Is there any harm in using the TEAC just as a preamp before the s.e.x. amp?
What's the optimal solution?

Thanks in advance for any advice. I'm very much a beginner at understanding the technical side of things

My signal path is: Shure N97xE stylus > BIC 960 phonograph > Behringer PP400 preamp > s.e.x. amp > Blumenstein Orcas

[Paul Birkeland]

The PP400 has 35db of gain, the Reduction is 36db, and an upgraded Reduction 40dB, so the gain is fairly similar.

Having said that, I believe the Reduction will be a drastic improvement over the PP400, just based on the price point of that unit and the likely topology employed (single dual op-amp).

-PB

[ffivaz]

I would say that the "bottleneck" is the sex amp. The Shure N97xE is a 4mV cartridge, which is fairly the output for which the Reduction was designed. I use a Denon DL 110 cartridge, a 1.6 mV (speced, closer to 2 mV in reality) with my Reduction and I have plenty of volume, though lower than from a digital source.

Did you test the sex + orcas with a CD or DAC ? Is there a difference (compared to the pp400) ?

[corndog71]

Your "phono preamp" isn't the same thing as a line preamp which is what you are missing in this equation.  Your old receiver had this built in which is why you could get more volume before. 

The sex amp by itself will only take you so far unless you have really efficient speakers.  You could get a bit more gain if you add a separate preamp like the Quickie. 

[bblood]

Did you test the sex + orcas with a CD or DAC ? Is there a difference (compared to the pp400) ?

Yes, a CD or DAC has enough volume to push my speakers to the limit. My drivers are only 3".

[bblood]

The PP400 has 35db of gain, the Reduction is 36db, and an upgraded Reduction 40dB, so the gain is fairly similar.

Having said that, I believe the Reduction will be a drastic improvement over the PP400, just based on the price point of that unit and the likely topology employed (single dual op-amp).

-PB

That was my hunch on the gain comparison.
Thank you!!

[bblood]

Your "phono preamp" isn't the same thing as a line preamp which is what you are missing in this equation.  Your old receiver had this built in which is why you could get more volume before. 

The sex amp by itself will only take you so far unless you have really efficient speakers.  You could get a bit more gain if you add a separate preamp like the Quickie.

Ahhhh, I didn't know there was a difference between a phono preamp and a line preamp. Good to know!

[Paul Joppa]

Running the numbers:

4mV cartridge (at nominal level, which is usually 14dB below instantaneous peak level, on good audiophile recordings)

35dB gain in the Behringer = 225 times, so 900mV output from the Behringer.

SEX amp voltage needed to clip = 620mV

Therefor you should be able to clip the amp on loud passages with most recordings. Since you are not, there must be a problem somewhere - it is not your imagination!

[bblood]

Running the numbers:

4mV cartridge (at nominal level, which is usually 14dB below instantaneous peak level, on good audiophile recordings)

35dB gain in the Behringer = 225 times, so 900mV output from the Behringer.

SEX amp voltage needed to clip = 620mV

Therefor you should be able to clip the amp on loud passages with most recordings. Since you are not, there must be a problem somewhere - it is not your imagination!

Thanks for doing some math for me. I think I'll switch out different components and see how that affects the levels. Thank you!!